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I was reading about the Nauvoo city charter and was directed to a wikipedia page on the Expositor:

In the latter part of the page Joseph Smith is writing to Govenor Ford and he describes the Expositor and the people behind it as:

"In the investigation it appeared evident to the council that the proprietors were a set of unprincipled men, lawless, debouchees, counterfeiters, Bogus Makers, gamblers, peace disturbers, and that the grand object of said proprietors was to destroy our constitutional rights and chartered privileges; to overthrow all good and wholesome regulations in society; to strengthen themselves against the municipality; to fortify themselves against the church of which I am a member, and destroy all our religious rights and privileges, by libels, slanders, falsehoods, perjury & sticking at no corruption to accomplish their hellish purposes. and that said paper of itself was libelous of the deepest dye, and very injurious as a vehicle of defamation,—tending to corrupt the morals, and disturb the peace, tranquillity and happiness of the whole community, and especially that of Nauvoo."


It's not like he could have written that there are a few things that we had a falling out about but he writes these guys are "lawless, debouchees, counterfeiters"etc. Do you think he is embellishing a little bit? It's too funny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Expositor

thestyleguy wrote:I was reading about the Nauvoo city charter and was directed to a wikipedia page on the Expositor:

In the latter part of the page Joseph Smith is writing to Govenor Ford and he describes the Expositor and the people behind it as:

"In the investigation it appeared evident to the council that the proprietors were a set of unprincipled men, lawless, debouchees, counterfeiters, Bogus Makers, gamblers, peace disturbers, and that the grand object of said proprietors was to destroy our constitutional rights and chartered privileges; to overthrow all good and wholesome regulations in society; to strengthen themselves against the municipality; to fortify themselves against the church of which I am a member, and destroy all our religious rights and privileges, by libels, slanders, falsehoods, perjury & sticking at no corruption to accomplish their hellish purposes. and that said paper of itself was libelous of the deepest dye, and very injurious as a vehicle of defamation,—tending to corrupt the morals, and disturb the peace, tranquillity and happiness of the whole community, and especially that of Nauvoo."


It's not like he could have written that there are a few things that we had a falling out about but he writes these guys are "lawless, debouchees, counterfeiters"etc. Do you think he is embellishing a little bit? It's too funny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Expositor

So *that's* where the Mormon tradition of exaggerating the evil of non-members all started. Interesting.

What's really funny is when you try reading it back pretending that it's someone else talking about the church and Joseph Smith himself. All I could think of reading this the first time, "What an effin hypocrite!"

You're right. Too funny.

thestyleguy wrote:"In the investigation it appeared evident to the council that the proprietors were a set of unprincipled men, lawless, debouchees, counterfeiters, Bogus Makers, gamblers, peace disturbers"

Wow. Weren't these guys former members of the First Presidency? Imagine if Uchdork and Eyring left the church and Monson made thsoe types of comments bout them. You would have to ask if they're such bad men, how did they get the job in the first place? I know TBMs will claim that even the most elect will fall, but it seems that either Joseph Smith is really bad at handing out callings, especially really high callings like Apostle and First Presidency; or these guys were at one point worthy of such a high calling before joining the church, but after joining the church became unprincipled, lawless, debouchees, counterfeiters, etc. So many people who got close to Joseph Smith turned into apostates and bad guys. What is it about Joseph Smith that brings out the worst in people?

WOW, that's a bit descriptive. I think the author was over exaggerating.

who was the guy who said agree with your enemies and do good to those who use you - reportedly Jesus. It does not seem like Joseph Smith was following his advice.

SatanWasSetUp wrote:Wow. Weren't these guys former members of the First Presidency? Imagine if Uchdork and Eyring left the church and Monson made thsoe types of comments bout them. You would have to ask if they're such bad men, how did they get the job in the first place? I know TBMs will claim that even the most elect will fall, but it seems that either Joseph Smith is really bad at handing out callings, especially really high callings like Apostle and First Presidency; or these guys were at one point worthy of such a high calling before joining the church, but after joining the church became unprincipled, lawless, debouchees, counterfeiters, etc. So many people who got close to Joseph Smith turned into apostates and bad guys. What is it about Joseph Smith that brings out the worst in people?

His example.

I think that it is strange that during the Nauvoo period, every one was accusing everyone else of being counterfeiters. Why this assertion of all things? Obviously someone was doing something.

John Larsen wrote:I think that it is strange that during the Nauvoo period, every one was accusing everyone else of being counterfeiters. Why this assertion of all things? Obviously someone was doing something.

Making quick, easy money without having to actually work at a job is imbedded in Mormon culture. Joseph's example is hard to get around.

I wonder if that's part of the reason for the high number of MLM schemes among Mormons, and I wonder if it figures into the current bankruptcy rate in Utah.

John Larsen wrote:I think that it is strange that during the Nauvoo period, every one was accusing everyone else of being counterfeiters. Why this assertion of all things? Obviously someone was doing something.

Making easy money without having to work at a job has been part of Mormon culture since the beginning. Joseph makde a living at doing nothing but living off the bounty of others.

I wonder if this is at the heart of the MLM schemes that seem to abound in Mormon culture. And the downside would be the number of bankruptcies.

John Larsen wrote:I think that it is strange that during the Nauvoo period, every one was accusing everyone else of being counterfeiters. Why this assertion of all things? Obviously someone was doing something.

Book of Mormon perhaps or maybe the issues with the Kirtland Bank....or a host of other things.