DiscussMormonism.com

P@xton wrote:No ... NOT the Milk BEFORE meat kind of meat...but the kind of raw meat TBM's love...because it helps them beleive that they are not a member of a cult but a persecuted, hated people and completely misunderstood in the world.


Yesterday I attended my wife’s stake conference to hear the inspired words of the visiting GA, Richard Edgley, of the Mormon Presiding Bishopric…and I was not disappointed. Although, I did not take copious notes…I did want to share some of the bullet points of his message.

* The General Authorities were NOT prepared for the level of anti Mormonism that erupted over the presidential run of “Elder” Mitt Romney (yeah he referred to him as Elder). So much for their ability to be Seers.

* He admitted that some of his personal friends have left the church. (More on this in a moment)

* He enjoys going out on the Conference Center Plaza during General Conference to see all the so-called anti-Mormon protesters with their “Joseph Lied” signs….it strengthens his testimony that the church is true. WTF?

* Church members have nothing to be ashamed of with church history or doctrine i.e., polygamy was specifically mentioned but nothing else.

* The church has NOTHING to apologize for... did you hear that one F.A.R.M.S.? This statement made my head snap!!

* The church is the most hated church in America…but the church is most hated in…drum roll please….UTAH (Hmmm…so add that to the list of other things that Utah leads the nation in such as anti-depressants use, youth suicide, white collar fraud, Pay-day Loans …quite an impressive résumé’.


So more on Edgley’s apostate friend. (If this friend posts here I’d love hear the real story…as Edgley edited it down to make a faith promoting story out of your loss of belief) His friend had served in various “high” callings in the church and through study of church history has come to the conclusion that the church and Joseph smith in particular is a fraud. When Edgley questioned his friend as to how he came to this conclusion his friend responded that Smith was a fraud because Smith never had any revelations that came true…so he was a fraud. (Edgeley’s explanation seemed too simple)

Edgley, then proceeded to quote two of Smith’s so called revelations, that in his opinion did come true, to counter his friends claims of Smith’s fraud.

#1: Moroni’s declaration that Joseph Smith’s name would be known for both good and evil throughout the word and…

#2: That Smith prophesied that the stone cut without hands would (the church) would fill the entire earth…

Regarding so-called prophecy #1: The account of Moroni was written in 1838….some 18 years after the event supposedly had taken place…Smith was already KNOWN in 1838 as a fraud ...one third of his original 12 had left the church, many more former members had apostatized, he was ALREADY receiving persecution for his secret polygamist practices’ and land grab tactics in Missouri as well as Ohio…was it any stretch for him to declare that this trend of people pointing out HIS evil doings would continue?

Regarding so-called prophecy #2: Even by being generous… using the Mormon Church’s own membership numbers of 13 million…this represents the earth being filled to only .019% of its capacity. Imaging a very small droplet of water sitting in the bottom of a large glass…HOW, by anyone’s standard of measurement, can this be claimed as FULFILLMENT of filling the “whole” earth? It’s equivalent to my letting off a fart…and claiming that it’s filled the earth. Yet claim away they do. Their claim of fulfillment of this so called revelation….stretches incredulity. And when you use actual active numbers of a generous 40% of that 13 million that percentage of filling drops to a mere .008% of world population capacity.

Despite Edgley’s truth claims, Mormonism must stand up to the toughest of standards. It must explain away, too many things to list here…something that to date it refuses to or can not do…

But the TBM’s ate it up…they love Raw Meat…

quaker wrote:That dude thinks there are 67 billion people on the earth?

Regarding so-called prophecy #2: Even by being generous… using the Mormon Church’s own membership numbers of 13 million…this represents the earth being filled to only 0.19% of its capacity. Imaging a very small droplet of water sitting in the bottom of a large glass…HOW, by anyone’s standard of measurement, can this be claimed as FULFILLMENT of filling the “whole” earth? It’s equivalent to my letting off a fart…and claiming that it’s filled the earth. Yet claim away they do. Their claim of fulfillment of this so called revelation….stretches incredulity. And when you use actual active numbers of a generous 40% of that 13 million that percentage of filling drops to a mere .08% of world population capacity.

Chap wrote:

quaker wrote:That dude thinks there are 67 billion people on the earth?

You are right - there is a factor of ten error in the calculation given. The actual figure for world population is in fact more like 6.7 (US) billion = 6,700 million

13 million / 6,700 million = 0.0019 to 2 significant figures, or 0.19%

Thus the relevant paragraph needs to be revised as follows:

Regarding so-called prophecy #2: Even by being generous… using the Mormon Church’s own membership numbers of 13 million…this represents the earth being filled to only 0.19% of its capacity. Imaging a very small droplet of water sitting in the bottom of a large glass…HOW, by anyone’s standard of measurement, can this be claimed as FULFILLMENT of filling the “whole” earth? It’s equivalent to my letting off a fart…and claiming that it’s filled the earth. Yet claim away they do. Their claim of fulfillment of this so called revelation….stretches incredulity. And when you use actual active numbers of a generous 40% of that 13 million that percentage of filling drops to a mere .08% of world population capacity.

Since even the corrected results are so tiny in proportion to the world's population, the point of the paragraph seems pretty well undamaged. The CoJCoLDS is not a significant proportion of the world's population by any reckoning. Nor is it likely to become so.

truth dancer wrote:I have the impression that people who are immersed in the church, may not have a sense of how the LDS church is viewed by the outside world.

I'm wondering why the LDS church has not had their marketing firm do some research on how the church is viewed and why it is not viewed positively by most non-LDS?

If I were the PR firm, I would suggest that repackaging is not the problem.

The reasons non-LDS do not view the LDS church positively have to do with certain practices, doctrine, and teachings.

in my opinion.

~dancer~

Boaz & Lidia wrote:
#1: Moroni’s declaration that Joseph Smith’s name would be known for both good and evil throughout the word and…

#2: That Smith prophesied that the stone cut without hands would (the church) would fill the entire earth…

guy sajer wrote:Yup, the stone is definitely rolling forth.

SatanWasSetUp wrote:

Boaz & Lidia wrote:
#1: Moroni’s declaration that Joseph Smith’s name would be known for both good and evil throughout the word and…

#2: That Smith prophesied that the stone cut without hands would (the church) would fill the entire earth…

Prophecy #1 is lame, of course. Prophecy #2 is more of a sales goal. It's like how missions presidents "prophecy" that they will double baptisms the next year. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. All Joseph Smith had to do was send missionaries all over the world, which he did. If he had failed to spread the church to other countries, we simply would not be talking about that prophecy today. It would just be an opinion, like the 1890 2nd coming, and moon-men.

truth dancer wrote:I have the impression that people who are immersed in the church, may not have a sense of how the LDS church is viewed by the outside world.

I'm wondering why the LDS church has not had their marketing firm do some research on how the church is viewed and why it is not viewed positively by most non-LDS?

If I were the PR firm, I would suggest that repackaging is not the problem.

The reasons non-LDS do not view the LDS church positively have to do with certain practices, doctrine, and teachings.

in my opinion.

~dancer~