DiscussMormonism.com

Via mormoncurtain:
(thanks Infymus!)

WARD 1: Covers some inner-city areas. Maybe a couple professionals in the ward. Mostly average income families or families who struggle financially.

2007 donations: $280,892 (includes tithing, fast offerings, missionary, etc)

2007 expenditures: 28,234 (includes welfare assistance, budget reimbursements,etc.)

WARD 2: Covers suburban and rural areas. Maybe a couple professionals in the ward. Slightly more retirees than Ward 1. Mostly average income families. Very few families or individuals who struggle financially.

2007 donations: $331,873 (includes tithing, fast offerings, missionary, etc)

2007 expenditures: $13,681 (includes welfare assistance, budget reimbursements, etc)

So folks, looks like the money is going to Salt Lake. If we look to wards that are chock full of upper middle class individuals, the numbers boggle the mind.

How can Mormons justify these numbers? Why? I am flabbergasted at the high rate not going back into the ward.

There is no way to justify this besides greed and profiteering.

Well yeah, duh. Everything that's given to the ward, is transferred to salt lake. The ward is free to spend what it has taken in in F/O. But if they don't use their F/O budget by year end though, it's kept by salt lake.

Of course the money goes to SLC. The cost of supporting the church and its endeavors goes far beyond each ward's individual annual budget. The LDS church does not operate as a collection of individual congregations, but as an entire organization that pools its resources and expenses (hence, the elimination of the building contributions of days past, etc.).

Plus, I don't expect that the original author of the post is able to give the complete picture.

And as an aside, the original author of the post loses any credibility with this statement: "Amazing how much Salt Lakes gets compared to the local units. I have also found that retirees tend to give more in donations outside of the regular tithing and fast offerings. (i.e They are more likely to give to the perpetual education fund or temple building). Too bad, I bet their grandchildren could use that extra money!!". Who cares if someone saves money to give their grandchildren? It's their hard-earned money to do whatever they damned well please with. Let the grandkids earn their own way. Egads.

Why is missionary only on one side of the equation? Me serving in Holland wasn't cheap for the church ya know (especially after I was involved in a minor car accident).

asbestosman wrote:Why is missionary only on one side of the equation? Me serving in Holland wasn't cheap for the church ya know (especially after I was involved in a minor car accident).

Because the money to finance the mission isn't coming out of the local ward.

The information mercury presented isn't really useful at all.

asbestosman wrote:Why is missionary only on one side of the equation? Me serving in Holland wasn't cheap for the church ya know (especially after I was involved in a minor car accident).

This is one of my many concerns. With so uch money going to SLC WHY are the missionaries and their families paying to do a service to the corporation?

Mercury wrote:Via mormoncurtain:
(thanks Infymus!)

WARD 1: Covers some inner-city areas. Maybe a couple professionals in the ward. Mostly average income families or families who struggle financially.

2007 donations: $280,892 (Includes tithing, fast offerings, missionary, etc)

2007 expenditures: 28,234 (includes welfare assistance, budget reimbursements,etc.)

WARD 2: Covers suburban and rural areas. Maybe a couple professionals in the ward. Slightly more retirees than Ward 1. Mostly average income families. Very few families or individuals who struggle financially.

2007 donations: $331,873 (includes tithing, fast offerings, missionary, etc)

2007 expenditures: $13,681 (includes welfare assistance, budget reimbursements, etc)

So folks, looks like the money is going to Salt Lake. If we look to wards that are chock full of upper middle class individuals, the numbers boggle the mind.

How can Mormons justify these numbers? Why? I am flabbergasted at the high rate not going back into the ward.

There is no way to justify this besides greed and profiteering.

The expenditures are not all the ward expindetures. The numbers you show are ward budget numbers. They don not include that money SLC pays directly in operating and maintaining the buildings-heat, repairs, lights, custodians and so on. Nor do they include FOs.


How about my ward?

Takes in about $380,000

Ward budget for activities runs about $15,000 per year.

Welfare assistance is about $50,000 a year which is $10,00-$20,000 more than the ward typically takes in for FO contributions.

Heating and lights is about $30,000-$40,000 per year.

Building is five years old. Cost about 2.5 Million to build it.

Facility cleaning is about $20,000 per year.

Repairs I am not sure, we have had pipes burst about 5 times creating lots of water damage. The building was poorly desigend for the very cold winters we get where I live.

There is more cost I am sure that I am missing.

But this points out that your analysis in in correct.

First, where did these numbers come from? Are these actual numbers from 2 wards, or calculations based on some educated guesses in a given area?

Second, Jason where did you get your numbers? Those seem AWFULLY high to me. 30k for heat and electric?? I work for a manufacturing plant, 50,000 sqft. It doesn't take 30k for utilities in that place!!

Also,

Facility cleaning is about $20,000 per year.

You don't have ward members that are called to clean the building? Our wards here do.

Edited to add: I just saw the part about cold winters. So, maybe 30k for utilities would make sense...

Where do you live, Jason?

Scottie wrote:First, where did these numbers come from? Are these actual numbers from 2 wards, or calculations based on some educated guesses in a given area?

Second, Jason where did you get your numbers? Those seem AWFULLY high to me. 30k for heat and electric?? I work for a manufacturing plant, 50,000 sqft. It doesn't take 30k for utilities in that place!!

Also,

Facility cleaning is about $20,000 per year.

You don't have ward members that are called to clean the building? Our wards here do.

Edited to add: I just saw the part about cold winters. So, maybe 30k for utilities would make sense...

Where do you live, Jason?

It was a rough guess. It may be high. I live in the Northeast. But I do recall in our old building that the heat and electric, in the days we had to pay it directly was about $20k. Yes member clean some but FM still gives us like 15 hours a week.

Do wards which spend greater amounts for member welfare come under administrative scrutiny and review?