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Mormon Replacement Rate

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:24 am
by _beastie
This article was linked from postmo:

http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=263


According to the Pew U.S. Religious Landscape Survey the replacement rate of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has dropped to 80%. That means that for every five members who leave Mormonism behind four new converts join the Church.

In 2001, the CUNY Religious Identification Survey had found that Mormons, as well as Jehavah’s Witnesses, recruited large numbers of converts but lost members at the same rates. If the Pew Forum’s findings are correct then the LDS Church is no longer replacing its losses in the United States.

The Pew Forum surveyed 35,000 respondents, which is a magnificent asset for religion researchers because even relatively small religions will be represented with sufficiently large sub-samples yielding reasonable margins of error. The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey found that 1.7% of adult Americans are Mormon, which means that the sample contains 595 Mormons.

A random stratified sample of 512 respondents would yield a margin of error of +/-4%.

In this sample, the Pew researchers found that about 162 respondents had left Mormonism but only 132 had joined, which yields a deficit of 33 people (~5.5%). I am not sure but in the absence of information to the contrary, I am assuming that joining and leaving Mormonism applies to the life time of the respondents. Even so, that figure amounts to a substantial deficit.

Just for fun, lets consider the best and worst case scenarios in light of the samples margin of error. In the best case, which assumes the lowest possible number of departers and the highest possible number of converts, the Mormon replacement rate might exceed 1.1. That would mean that eleven members join for every ten that leave.

On the other hand, the worst case scenario would depress the replacement rate to less than 58% where less than six people would convert for every ten departures.

However, the mean departure rate of 80% is most likely the correct estimate. If that number were correct, and that is what the evidence says, it would indicate a substantial demographic challenge for LDS leaders and the Mormon community.

PS: This is a self-identification survey. Respondents will reveal their views of themselves, which means that there will be any number of people who will say that they are no longer Mormons but have not mailed a resignation letter to Salt Lake.


Does anyone know about this? Is the article accurate?

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:55 am
by _Mike Reed
I don't know if it is accurate, but the article seems to overlook membership that comes via child-birth.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:03 am
by _Bond...James Bond
Mike Reed wrote:I don't know if it is accurate, but the article seems to overlook membership that comes via child-birth.


Which is why they want to pound the issue of having kids, that's the only church growth when one person leaves for every person who joins.

Of course what about the people who die?

Does this formula look correct?

(Deaths+Church resignations)-(births+conversions)=Church growth or church loss

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:53 am
by _Boaz & Lidia
Bond...James Bond wrote:
Mike Reed wrote:I don't know if it is accurate, but the article seems to overlook membership that comes via child-birth.


Which is why they want to pound the issue of having kids, that's the only church growth when one person leaves for every person who joins.

Of course what about the people who die?

Does this formula look correct?

(Deaths+Church resignations)-(births+conversions)=Church growth or church loss
Rephrased:

(Registered Deaths of active members + actual requested resignations )- (BIC baptisms + people who have been baptized) = LDS growth or loss

Also, all child baptisms from age of nine and above are counted as a convert baptism, cuz yanno, 9 year old have adult like cognitive and reasoning skills and truly were converted rather than being forced like the parent pleasing parroting eight year olds nailed in the stake center dunk tank.

Remember their records department do not remove names unless one of the following occurs(in order):
1. Someone tells them there is a dead LDS member.
2. Official name removal request(although I have serious doubts they actually remove them from the count)
3. The date of birth on record places them at 110+ years old and they cannot contact them

Also keep in mind, LDS Inc counts both conversions and baptisms as the same. Any honest clergy does not(very rare in LDS wards).

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:47 am
by _ludwigm
And why do every 4 of 5 leave?

In another thread, charity has explained it :
charity wrote:
ludwigm wrote:The modern audience will not listen the message without material proof. The majority of them.
The minority? Yes, there are millions who accept it after six half-hour lesson. What do You think, why do 80% of them leave in the first year? No, they are not sinners, they are not offended. Simply they look behind the show-window and see those unimportant things.
The Book of Mormon is about the message of the Gospel. It isn't a geography book. People should be joining the Church because the Holy Spirit testifies to them of the truth of the Gospel of Christ. Not for any other reason. If they have that witness and join why do they leave? Because some people join for the wrong reasons. Because it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony, and some people lose theirs. Because some sin. Because some become offended. Because some can't leave the pride of the world. Lots of reasons. And none of them have anything to do with where a physical location of a Book of Mormon site is.


All of them have leaved because they was wrong. The persons. The members. The individuals.

No other reason.

The church is true.

QED

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:53 am
by _It occurs to me . . .
I'm pretty sure that the guy who wrote the article, Hellmut, is the same who posts under that name on MAD, he is also the onw who runs The Cumorah Project: http://www.cumorah.com/ , a great site for Mormon growth stats.

At least I think it's the same guy.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:44 am
by _beastie
Yes, it doesn't appear to include birth/baptism at 8, as replacement rate. Given the high birth rate among Mormons, that probably still results in the LDS church growing, rather than shrinking.

Thanks, for the link, occurs to me - I'll check it out and see if he addresses birth rate somewhere.



If they have that witness and join why do they leave? Because some people join for the wrong reasons. Because it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony, and some people lose theirs. Because some sin. Because some become offended. Because some can't leave the pride of the world. Lots of reasons. And none of them have anything to do with where a physical location of a Book of Mormon site is.


Lots of reasons = discovering the overwhelming evidence against various church claims

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:41 pm
by _SatanWasSetUp
Charity said:
it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony.


I agree with Charity on this. Why do you think that is? If something is so obviously true, even the one and only truth, why is it so hard? And do you think it is harder to maintain a testimony if you're a Mormon as opposed to say the Jehovah's Witnesses? They both have about the same resignation rates.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:26 pm
by _John Larsen
SatanWasSetUp wrote:Charity said:
it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony.


I agree with Charity on this. Why do you think that is? If something is so obviously true, even the one and only truth, why is it so hard? And do you think it is harder to maintain a testimony if you're a Mormon as opposed to say the Jehovah's Witnesses? They both have about the same resignation rates.


I also agree. However, I don't think it take ongoing effort to maintain a belief in things that are clearly true.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:29 pm
by _Mercury
John Larsen wrote:
SatanWasSetUp wrote:Charity said:
it takes work and effort to maintain a a testimony.


I agree with Charity on this. Why do you think that is? If something is so obviously true, even the one and only truth, why is it so hard? And do you think it is harder to maintain a testimony if you're a Mormon as opposed to say the Jehovah's Witnesses? They both have about the same resignation rates.


I also agree. However, I don't think it take ongoing effort to maintain a belief in things that are clearly true.


Agreed.

If I were to use charity's logic I need to study up and reaffirm gravity, Moores law and base 2 mathematics. If I were to lose my testimony in these truths I don't know WHAT i would do.

/sarcasm