DiscussMormonism.com

A comment from Inconceivable on the blessing thread sparked this topic. :-)

Once belief is gone, one is often left with all the big questions unanswered which may leave one unsettled.

While a former believer may discover that many of the answers provided by religion (whether LDS, Scientology, or any other), are untrue, she/he is left in a state of confusion, maybe even chaos, needing some sort of peace.

My belief is that human evolved to manage better with answers hence the common phenomenon to come up with answers, as limited, silly, unusual as they may be at times. I think having answers to the big questions seems to give us a framework, settle our thoughts, and provide a sense of grounding.

When all this is gone, we may struggle.

So, did you ever go through this state? If so, how did you get through it? Do you feel more peaceful today? Do you have new answers to the big questions? What is your experience?

I'm pleading with y'all to keep this nice. :-) I'm hoping for some mature discussion here even though this is not in the celestial room.... pretty please with a cherry on top?

Thanks for any thoughts or insights!

:-)

~dancer~

My personal journey was slightly different in that I had "answers" that felt right/peaceful/holy in my heart prior to disbelief but they conflicted with some of the LDS teachings hence when I released LDS doctrine I felt enormous peace, and didn't really go through this challenging time.

I had a very bad experience with the Church in my youth. I thought I was always second rate. I never added up. It went on for decades and at times I almost took my life. At MAD I asked some questions that were uncomfortable for some which produced a great amount of angry responses which left me baffled as I had another image of Mormons. One time at the end, and after I had been warned many times, I heard people starting to say bad things about a "Kevin Graham" and sure enough he showed up for few days and wrote alot of stuff. People attacked him but not his thoughts as they were well written and made sense. At the same time I was surfing the web and looking closley at the evolution of man. I'm sure I got this in biology in school but I wasn't interested at the time. I also started reading the "books" that were reportedly anti and they made sense too. I found easy to read things - wikipedia- which made evolution and the evolution of man easy to understand. Both of these things were going on at the same time and I was also reading good logical thoughts on this board. One night I couldn't sleep and I was able to finish an insiders view and I started to feel better - suddenly I did'New Testament feel second rate and not good enough. I was thinking, O my gosh, this is a scam. One day I was thinking about what would happen to me when I died if I was still outside the Church. I had this nano-second flash go through my mind where I was sort of outside not just the bubble of our atmosphere but outside the universe. I was scared and had this flash go through my mind that basically assured me that things were going to be okay after I died. As I finished a book on the history of the Bible, I came to observe that what the Mormon church is doing today, the Jews did back between 750 bc and 250 bc. They made up stories, some with historical figures, and wrote conversations these people were suppose to have made. Things were looked at by leaders and rewritten, taking some things out and making more things clear. I came to realize that it is man made. I still have the memory of that flash that comforts me. As I read more about evolution, it becomes clearer and clearer that this is the process that occured. I find peace in truth where ever I find it. I find beauty in truth. I find beauty in evolution and feel lucky to be born at this stage in it and in a wealthy free country too. I don't like scams and liars. I don't like to feel preasured to say or do things that I don't want to or don't believe. I realize that this is why I had a problem with my mission. Testifying (with a hundred mile stare) in the fall of 1980 that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that the Church was God's kingdom on the earth was wrong when I did not believe it and you can't say these things based on other's testimony until you get yours. The internet has been great to read about other's experiences. I read someone's thoughts on another board and the person wrote that the church keeps you so busy you really don't have time to think and ponder about it's history because it is not pretty. I felt this way too. The things that happened in the 1830's and 1840's shocked the neighbors of Mormons just like it shocks us today. I think the Church needs to sit down and start addressig things like Joseph Smith marrying other men's wives while the couple were still married or people are going to get hurt. B.H. Roberts brought this up at the end of his life saying that he feared the youth of the Church were going to get hurt if things were not addressed. The Brethren then just bore their testimony just like they do today. I guess when people start asking questions as to why Bishop so and so left the Church and people start leaving at ten times the amount they are today that the Church may need to address it's history but by then it may be too late.

I would guess that it may be different for those BIC (born in church) and those that converted. As a Utah BIC member, my entire life's purpose and strategy was laid out by the "gospel plan." I had some deep questions and doubts that I later came to realize were a part of my transition out, but I was definitely one that had a major problem with finding peace after my "enlightenment."

I divide my journey into emotional and logical. Their were some "feelings" I had while on my mission to Japan that I struggled to reconcile, but the logical prevailed for a while. Simply, I observed a dissonance that I hadn't expected -- the Japanese were happy! I remember going to the train station on our bikes, and my companion said "don't worry about locking your bike, the Japanese don't steal." My first thought was "what gives them a greater honesty than even the temple-going Mormons that lock their lockers in the temple?!"

I defaulted to "we all have the light of Christ" concept. It worked for the time...but I also perceived a greater sense of peace and happiness than I had ever seen -- and I was raised in the heart of Zion! They were very family oriented, didn't eat their young, and enjoyed the same things I did! How could they be that way without Mormonism, or even Christianity?

I stuffed it for a while.

After my marriage, I found myself constricted emotionally. The rules of the church with regard to sexuality and other natural passions had me craving a release. My wife, very TBM, beautiful, and a great mother, was quite guilt ridden as it relates to sex. I remember a time in a hotel hearing the couple next door, and I about went insane! (To keep this clean at TD's request), I remember almost sobbing about how much I wanted that. We got to where we couldn't even go to romantic movies because it would "inspire" romantic feelings in me that she didn't like.

The logical me thought "why was I in this situation when I had done everything right?!" Both virgins at marriage, full tithe payer, etc, if the paradigm of "get blessed after you obey..." was real, it wasn't working for me! I stuffed it all with much work and church service.

When asked to study with Grant Palmer for a book he was writing, I jumped at the chance to see why I was conflicted. After about two months with him, it was so clear to me. This was the "logical" that I needed.

It wasn't true! No wonder I had the feelings I did! It was based on fiction, so the "perfect gospel" was anything but that!

But then...what WAS true? And if Mormonism was wrong, what about other religions? It didn't take much time for me to fall to pure atheism. But there were some feelings of connectedness that I still questioned -- and I must say I still do.

For the next few years, I went to spiritual, self-help seminars and retreats, read books voraciously, and got to a place that I finally re-built my collapsed moral house of cards with a system based on the Golden Rule. I found that many of the same behaviors I had when LDS continued to "feel good." But some did not. I found some new behaviors that clicked so naturally that are totally taboo in Mormonism, and after some time, became very comfortable with them.

But during the struggling time, I found myself addicted to pain meds (after an injury that I was prescribed the meds...I found that they also numbed my emotional pain). This was a problem in many ways, but it also made me evaluate much about what my "drivers" were. One thing I learned was that I had been raised to live for an external source. I always looked outside myself for my answers. God was "out there" somewhere, and most (if not all) answers could be found in the scriptures and the modern prophets' talks. When I learned to look inside, I finally found my peace. Nobody knew what "right" or "best" for me except...

ME.

And that was weird in the beginning. It felt selfish and prideful. But after surrounding myself with new friends that had a sense of peace that I wanted, I learned that it was okay to be that way.

And I became okay with "not knowing." The idea that we are without purpose or hope without knowing "the plan of salvation" became okay for me. I felt that this alone was one of my biggest leaps to finding peace. "I don't know, and that's okay" became a mantra that helped me along my journey.

Anyway, rambling now. Thanks TD for the chance to reflect...

BishopRic wrote:When asked to study with Grant Palmer for a book he was writing, I jumped at the chance to see why I was conflicted. After about two months with him, it was so clear to me. This was the "logical" that I needed.

Not to derail, but was this his famous insider book? Also, please clarify.. your were ASKED to study with him? Who requested this?

Boaz & Lidia wrote:

BishopRic wrote:When asked to study with Grant Palmer for a book he was writing, I jumped at the chance to see why I was conflicted. After about two months with him, it was so clear to me. This was the "logical" that I needed.

Not to derail, but was this his famous insider book? Also, please clarify.. your were ASKED to study with him? Who requested this?

Yes, and yes. He put together a group to bounce his findings off of. Grant was/is also a lawyer that worked part-time besides his work with the CES, and a lawyer colleague of his asked me to join them. I was in a place that I wanted to know some things -- and what he had found completely blew me away. I was a normal "chapel Mormon" that hadn't read any "anti" material up to that point, and his research was interesting to me BECAUSE he was an active, church educator.

I talked to a few BYU scholars about what he found, and they were so defensive and dismissive that it was quite clear what was going on. I really think if the church were generally more upfront about its history, the "shock" about the reality wouldn't be so damaging.

But then again, maybe it would.

(sorry TD for the derail...)

Thanks TD,

That seemed like the right question to help me out.

Bishop Ric,

Thankyou for your post. I'm seeing a number of parallels with what you are saying. The transition is bloody challenging when within the Mormon community. The effects are quite destructive on this soon to be part member family.

One observation I have made during this period is that I have stronger convictions of things I will not do and who I will not be - ethically and morally speaking. I'm getting to know myself better than I ever did - not what a Mormon God has pidgeon holed me to be. I'm discovering my uniqueness and even my similarities - not just within a cloned subset of zealots, but with the entire human race.

People are basically good.

Hey Inc,

I do REALLY love the idea of discovery.

When one lives one's life working hard to comply, obey, follow, concede, and basically exist as others demand, command, require, something seems lost. in my opinion, the very essence and individuality of each of us gets squelched and crushed.

When I look at the magnificence of our universe, the existence of life, and the amazing human, it seems the very last thing our world needs is followers who dismiss their brightness as they put on a mask to conform to leaders and the status quot.

To me, there seems something deeply holy in discovering one's uniqueness, one's essence.

My experience in the LDS church was one where I continually felt a need to dismiss my personal truth to embrace the ideas and beliefs of those who claimed to know ultimate truth. This goes against the most amazing abilities of the human, those being the journey of discovery, sharing one's uniqueness with the world, expressing the gifts and beauty of a life unlike any other.

My observation is that many believers, (not just the LDS church), due to following and obeying leaders, once they let go of belief do not even know how to discover their own truth. It is as they have to learn how to do this before they can come to know and embrace with what they actually believe is true; they have to learn how to embrace their own journey of discovery.

It is not easy, it is easier to follow and have all the questions answered (true or not), but I think there is something lovely about living an authentic life, expressing one's unique experience of life.

As Jospeh Campball says, "It is the hero's journey."

~dancer~