DiscussMormonism.com

Over on the other board, someone asked an interesting question.

I was just thinking back to my last temple recommend interview I had, in which I made it known to my bishop that I had some pretty serious doubts about Joseph Smith being a prophet of God. I was subsequently denied my temple recommend. I am not angry or bitter over this, but I was just wondering why this question matters in regards to a persons temple attendance. I always saw the temple as a place meant for me to make covenants with God, communicate with him, and find a place of peace to ponder life etc. So I thought this would be an interesting discussion for this board; why have questions about Joseph Smith in temple interviews? Are our covenants with God dependant on our belief in Joseph? I'm interested to hear your thoughts, thanks in advance.

The obvious answer to this is if you don't believe Joseph Smith was what he claimed to be, then there is no way you can believe the church is true. It all comes down to Joseph Smith, as Hinckley once said. It either happened the way he said it did, or it's a fraud. The replies the OP is receiving all have a similar theme. If you don't believe in Joseph Smith, what's the point in trying to be a member?

The OP brings up the question of worthiness. Why is belief in Joseph Smith part of a worthiness questionairre? I understand it comes down to whether or not you believe the church is true, but I think this is a big problem with the church. It is all based on Joseph Smith. You cannot remove him or the church falls.

I understand the OP's point. Why does one's opinion of Joseph Smith affect their relationship with God? But I also understand the church's position. You can't believe the church is true without believing Joseph Smith was a prophet and everything he claims happened to him really happened.

Should the church allow members to participate in their ordinances while believing Joseph Smith was not what he claimed to be? Should the church try to de-emphasise Joseph Smith? Does the church's dependence on Joseph Smith make it the Church of Joseph Smith, as the EVs like to call it?

I saw that over there, and wondered this: Is it possible to believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet insofar as the initial restoration was concerned, but then moved away from the role of prophet as he began instituting things such as polygamy? Would that be satisfactory? Could you get a TR if you stated your belief as such?

(I ask merely as an intellectual exercise - I do not believe he was at any time a prophet)

If you don't completely accept Joseph Smith as a prophet, you're exhibiting far too much freedom of thought to be allowed into the temple.

The church is about conformity: either conform or be cast out.

As I posted over there, I don't see the name Joseph Smith anywhere in the TR questions.

Did I look at an old online list? Did I miss it?

Scottie wrote:As I posted over there, I don't see the name Joseph Smith anywhere in the TR questions.

Did I look at an old online list? Did I miss it?

Can the Bishop deviate from these questions?

THE question(s) "Joseph Smith & current President as Prophets," was in my time more significant than the time-and-place of "finding-the-Lord". It is difficult to imagine a TRI without those questions. I both asked them of others, and answered them to others. Have things changed that much?

As for their necessity: Because of the cultic nature of LDSism, yes. IF/when THE questions are not asked, LDSism will be moving--to their advantage--more to main-stream domesticated socialized Christianism, a vast improvment over ancient blood sacrificial s(t)uperstionism that based the original faith. IMSCO, Roger

Scottie wrote:As I posted over there, I don't see the name Joseph Smith anywhere in the TR questions.

Did I look at an old online list? Did I miss it?

You missed it. #1 is the pertinent question: "Do you believe in God, the Eternal Father, in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost; and do you have a firm testimony of the restored gospel?"

If the gospel has been restored, Joseph did it.

harmony wrote:

Scottie wrote:As I posted over there, I don't see the name Joseph Smith anywhere in the TR questions.

Did I look at an old online list? Did I miss it?

You missed it. #1 is the pertinent question: "Do you believe in God, the Eternal Father, in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost; and do you have a firm testimony of the restored gospel?"

If the gospel has been restored, Joseph did it.

I disagree. This isn't asking specifically about Joseph Smith.

Asking about Joseph Smith plays into the whole worship of Joseph Smith by members. If the TR questions SPECIFICALLY asked about him by name, this would lend more towards Joseph Smith worship.

I see nothing wrong with asking if you have a testimony.

However, I thought MC (or was it Cinepro) had a great point. Wouldn't it be nice for those who are worthy, but don't believe in the church to be able to sit in on sealing ceremonies? Sure, you couldn't participate in any of them, but at least you could attend. Boy, the closed minded idiots over there rejected that notion post-haste.

If Joseph Smith isn't required for the TWI, he certainly is required to get into Heaven. Mormon Doctrine states that Joseph Smith stands at gates of Heaven. You can't get passed him if you don't believe in him.

Wait a minute, it isn't about Joseph Smith, it's about Jesus Christ right? No, it's all about Joseph Smith.

Infymus wrote:If Joseph Smith isn't required for the TWI, he certainly is required to get into Heaven. Mormon Doctrine states that Joseph Smith stands at gates of Heaven. You can't get passed him if you don't believe in him.

Wait a minute, it isn't about Joseph Smith, it's about Jesus Christ right? No, it's all about Joseph Smith.

What is TWI?