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I had a conversation with a fellow exmo yesterday who said his family told him recently that he doesn't seem happy like he did when he was active. I know him well, and I perceive he is MUCH happier now as an exmo.

What does "happiness" look like? Is it different in Mormonism than non-Mormonism?

My take is that "Mormon happiness" is created by...Mormons! It looks like humble, quiet talk...a teary, smily look at church (showing gratitude for being blessed with the gospel), a slightly fatigued look that indicates much hard work for the Lord...and no conflict.

Is this the same as "normal happiness?"

Hmmm...."normal happiness"....LOL Since I don't know that any of us are "normal".... ;)

I think that someone who is truly happy is comfortable in his/her own skin. He/she has times that are hard, but basically, this person enjoys his/her family, friends, job, and has a good overall balance.

I have seen people who fit into this category who are both in and out of the Church. Frankly, though, I think that the external demands of the Church with callings, etc. can make this process more difficult to achieve.

I think the key is being able to push back and say "no", and not feel guilty about it. Once I was able to do that, my world at Church became a lot easier to manage.

liz3564 wrote:Hmmm...."normal happiness"....LOL Since I don't know that any of us are "normal".... ;)

I think that someone who is truly happy is comfortable in his/her own skin. He/she has times that are hard, but basically, this person enjoys his/her family, friends, job, and has a good overall balance.

I have seen people who fit into this category who are both in and out of the Church. Frankly, though, I think that the external demands of the Church with callings, etc. can make this process more difficult to achieve.

I think the key is being able to push back and say "no", and not feel guilty about it. Once I was able to do that, my world at Church became a lot easier to manage.

I agree. When one can set personal boundaries like you said, "happiness" is achievable in any setting. What I hear you saying that is that you have an approach that is much healthier than many...you have your limits that work for you, and outside pressures won't change that. I find many LDSers can't say no -- thinking that if they are asked by a church leader, that is as good as God asking...a sad and poor assumption.

BishopRic wrote:I had a conversation with a fellow exmo yesterday who said his family told him recently that he doesn't seem happy like he did when he was active. I know him well, and I perceive he is MUCH happier now as an exmo.

What does "happiness" look like? Is it different in Mormonism than non-Mormonism?

My take is that "Mormon happiness" is created by...Mormons! It looks like humble, quiet talk...a teary, smily look at church (showing gratitude for being blessed with the gospel), a slightly fatigued look that indicates much hard work for the Lord...and no conflict.

Is this the same as "normal happiness?"

No, it's not. Mormon happiness as described by these folks is a cultural garment they wear to prove their mormon-ness. Of course he wouldn't seem as happy to them. Firstly, they probably harass the hell out of him due to his inactivity, enough to make anyone not want to smile. Secondly, if you're not jerking tears in testimony or wearing your tie too tight while trying to grin through the lack of oxygen, you can't possibly be happy.

Dude, didn't you know that?

GIMR wrote:

Mormon happiness...is a cultural garment.

Professor Blixa's Metaphor of the Day.

BishopRic wrote:I had a conversation with a fellow exmo yesterday who said his family told him recently that he doesn't seem happy like he did when he was active. I know him well, and I perceive he is MUCH happier now as an exmo.

What does "happiness" look like? Is it different in Mormonism than non-Mormonism?

My take is that "Mormon happiness" is created by...Mormons! It looks like humble, quiet talk...a teary, smily look at church (showing gratitude for being blessed with the gospel), a slightly fatigued look that indicates much hard work for the Lord...and no conflict.

Is this the same as "normal happiness?"

These sorts of statemments so frigg'n annoying. I guess if it helps them cling tighter to the iron rod to think an apostate couldn't possibly be happy, the let them. I assume, however, that in return they'd be equally annoyed if this person turned the table said something similar to his family.

The notion that one cannot be happy outside of the cloistered confines of a restrictive, authoritarian belief system that claims fewer than 1 in 1,000 of the world's population is just so much BS.

Yes, we are all unhappy. We pine for the days when we sat through 3 hours of mind numbing banality every Sunday. When I'm up skiing the bowls in 3-foot deep powder on Sundays I can't stop thinking about how much I'd rather killing my brain cells at church. Yes, I'm soooooo sad.

An interesting aspect of this includes fellowship with others. I live in a part of Arizona teeming with Mormons. I wouldn't say a majority of my neighbors are Mormon, but a great deal of them are. Now that I haven't gone to Sunday School or Priesthood Meeting for about the last year or so, I really haven't had much to do with very many members. When I was attending, and before it became obvious that I wasn't a believer anymore, I had more friendly associations with other members. It's not that I was bosom buddies with anyone, but I was on good terms with people at Church, and we'd talk, and we had one couple over for dinner before, and went over to theirs for dinner*. I also participated in more Elder's Quorum activities that were fun.

Now that my apostasy is well-enough known, and I haven't been going to Priesthood, I'm pretty much a loner. I work from home, I hardly ever see any elders from my ward, and don't do very much with any of my neighbors. There's one neighbor I do talk with sometimes and we've done some other things, but I wouldn't say we're close friends or anything like that.

Since I'm not a member of any clubs, fraternal societies, or anything else, not attending church and not working in a traditional office have radically limited by opportunities for socializing with others.

In a way, that could be said to contribute to unhappiness. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm unhappy though - just that I probably could be happier if I had more people to do stuff with.

I think if my people who apostatize experience similar changes to their social life as I have, that could materially impinge on their perceived happiness by others. I guess everyone's case is different.

*I think I killed off that potential friendship by making the mistake of arguing against the church's position on gay marriage. The guy in this couple had been passing an information sheet around trying to recruit people to vote for an anti-gay marriage proposal that was going to be on the ballot. I told him I wouldn't support that, and we argued about gay marriage for a while and I think he concluded that I rejected the positions of our prophets and presented some sort of danger, and we haven't had a whole lot to do with each other ever since. We've exchanged pleasantries after Sacrament Meeting sometimes, but neither has been to the other's house ever since.

Blixa wrote:GIMR wrote:

Mormon happiness...is a cultural garment.

Professor Blixa's Metaphor of the Day.

Thanks, Professor! I feel special. *glowing*

Mormon happiness is going to church with your family on Sunday.
Non-mormon happiness is going to the beach with your family on Sunday.

Mormon happiness is going to seminary at 6:00 in the morning.
Non-mormon happiness is going to the gym at 6:00 in the morning.

Mormon happiness is attending the ward dinner on Frida night.
Non-mormon happiness is going to the movies on Friday night.

There can be a difference between Mormon happiness and non-mormon happiness, but what I've heard is non-mormons may say they are happy, and they may have some happiness, but they don't have the fullness of joy that comes from the gospel.

Also, sethbag hit on an important thing, the perceived unhappiness of the apostate. If you no longer associate with a bunch of members from church, you may appear to be lonely and unhappy. When the ward is having an activity at the church, and of course the apostate is not there, obviously he can't be having as much fun as they are at the activity, therefore he must be sitting at home miserable.

There is a transition period as you begin to drift away from Mormon culture and fill the void with whatever. This transition can appear like unhappiness to a Mormon, but for most of us it isn't a big deal, and we're much happier living life on our own terms. I imagine also it depends on the attitude of the TBM spouse (if there is one). If the TBM spouse is unhappy living with an apostate, it is assumed the apostate is also miserable, and it is all caused by the apostacy.

BishopRic wrote:I had a conversation with a fellow exmo yesterday who said his family told him recently that he doesn't seem happy like he did when he was active. I know him well, and I perceive he is MUCH happier now as an exmo.

Chances are the reason he doesn’t look “happy” to his family is because he probably isn’t all that “happy” when around them. The lingering hermaphroditic monkey in the corner is still causing tension. Hopefully with time, it will pass.

What does "happiness" look like?

Happiness doesn’t look like anything. The face to meet the faces (thank you TS Elliot) does not necessarily accurately reflect the innards.

My take is that "Mormon happiness" is created by...Mormons! It looks like humble, quiet talk...a teary, smily look at church (showing gratitude for being blessed with the gospel), a slightly fatigued look that indicates much hard work for the Lord...and no conflict.

“When we’re helping we’re happy…”

Is this the same as "normal happiness?"

Happiness is not normal. Melancholy is.