If Gender is eternal, what about hair color? Varicose veins?

[_asbestosman]

Why is gender an eternal part of our identities? What about other physical charactaristics? Is my eye color an eternal part of me? What about being near or far-sighted? What about varicose veins? What about blood type--is that eternal too?

Or maybe gender is different because it is personality. Very well, is mental retardation an eternal part of our identities? ADHD? Depression?

On the other hand, why is it that we often hear so much about people who feel they were born with the wrong genetilia, but I do not hear so much about people who feel they were born with the wrong hair color? Certainly some people complain about being the wrong height or such, but I don't think they feel that they are a midget in a giant's body or the way around. Why is that?

[_Moniker]

What do you mean by eternal? Before birth or after death? Both? Are the genders assigned in the pre-existence?

Don't spouses get to choose what their spouses will look like in the after life? So, if a homosexual man is married couldn't he choose for his wife to look like a man in the Celestial Kingdom?

Is that possible in LDS theology?

Women complain about being born with the wrong hair and eye color... I've heard it often. Anyway, don't the spouses choose what each other will look like in the CK?

[_asbestosman]

What do you mean by eternal? Before birth or after death? Both? Are the genders assigned in the pre-existence?

By eternal I mean before birth and after death. I don't know when it is assigned, but apparently we LDS believe that gender was part of us while we were spirits before we were born.

Don't spouses get to choose what their spouses will look like in the after life? So, if a homosexual man is married couldn't he choose for his wife to look like a man in the Celestial Kingdom?

I don't think we get to choose how our spouses look. It's a funny idea, but scary too.

Is that possible in LDS theology?

I suppose it's possible, but I think it's unlikely.

Women complain about being born with the wrong hair and eye color... I've heard it often.

True, but isn't it different than thinking you're a blond in a red head's body? I wish that I wasn't near-sighted and that I won't develop arthritis or baldness, but I don't think I'm trapped in the wrong body because of it.

[_Moniker]

What do you mean by eternal? Before birth or after death? Both? Are the genders assigned in the pre-existence?

By eternal I mean before birth and after death. I don't know when it is assigned, but apparently we LDS believe that gender was part of us while we were spirits before we were born.

Don't spouses get to choose what their spouses will look like in the after life? So, if a homosexual man is married couldn't he choose for his wife to look like a man in the Celestial Kingdom?

I don't think we get to choose how our spouses look. It's a funny idea, but scary too.

Is that possible in LDS theology?

I suppose it's possible, but I think it's unlikely.

Women complain about being born with the wrong hair and eye color... I've heard it often.

True, but isn't it different than thinking you're a blond in a red head's body? I wish that I wasn't near-sighted and that I won't develop arthritis or baldness, but I don't think I'm trapped in the wrong body because of it.

Oh? I thought LDS believed that their spouses could be shaped into whatever they desired in the CK. There was a discussion a few months (less than that? I can't recall) ago where bcspace talked about his wife being hot in the CK. Hmm.... I can't keep up with the beliefs! :)

I saw the thread on MAD where a poster was asking about having gender re-assignment surgery... is this what spurred this topic? So, why are genders determined in spirits before birth?

I used to work with a man that was undergoing gender re-assignment through surgery and hormones.... how are they treated by the LDS community? I imagine the belief that God made humans one way with a specific gender could certainly lessen the likelihood of accepting those that feel that "God" made a mistake.

I think we hear about people being unhappy with their gender because it has more of an affect on their life than being a blonde or brunette...

[Analytics]

Oh? I thought LDS believed that their spouses could be shaped into whatever they desired in the CK. There was a discussion a few months (less than that? I can't recall) ago where bcspace talked about his wife being hot in the CK. Hmm.... I can't keep up with the beliefs! :)

Poor bcspace. My wife is already hot.

I think spousal shape-shifting is just speculation.

I saw the thread on MAD where a poster was asking about having gender re-assignment surgery... is this what spurred this topic? So, why are genders determined in spirits before birth?

Yes, that's what spurred the topic.

I don't know exactly why, but we do believe that marriage is essential to this life and the afterlife. We also believe that marriage in the afterlife is in part for purpose of continuing the seeds--which many interpret as children--and which seems to imply that it can only happen with a man and a woman. Furthermore we believe that our spirits look like our physical bodies.

I used to work with a man that was undergoing gender re-assignment through surgery and hormones.... how are they treated by the LDS community? I imagine the belief that God made humans one way with a specific gender could certainly lessen the likelihood of accepting those that feel that "God" made a mistake.

I don't know how they're treated. I myself don't know why gender is a big deal in either direction. I honestly can't relate when BotenAnna asks what it'd be like if suddenly I woke up and were the opposite gender. I'm happy to be a male, but I wouldn't feel terrible if I had been a female. Of course I would miss the plumbing which is convenient when nature calls and one is in the woods. I'd also be worried about having no fashion sense as I am an engineer.

[_Moniker]

I feel sorry for bcspace's wife after his comments...... but that's neither here nor there... ;)

You missed this addendum to my last post. I edited and you didn't catch it before your reply.

I think we hear about people being unhappy with their gender because it has more of an affect on their life than being a blonde or brunette...

[_Moniker]

I don't know how they're treated. I myself don't know why gender is a big deal in either direction. I honestly can't relate when BotenAnna asks what it'd be like if suddenly I woke up and were the opposite gender. I'm happy to be a male, but I wouldn't feel terrible if I had been a female. Of course I would miss the plumbing which is convenient when nature calls and one is in the woods. I'd also be worried about having no fashion sense as I am an engineer.

I can't pretend to understand feeling as though you're the wrong gender -- yet, I accept that some people truly feel this way. I would be mortified to wake up tomorrow and be a man! Oh! My! Goodness! My identity is wrapped in the feminine... it would be traumatic. Perhaps that's how some feel that undergo this surgery? That they feel they're a certain way and their body doesn't reflect this? I'm not sure... I should probably read up on it.

[_asbestosman]

I think we hear about people being unhappy with their gender because it has more of an affect on their life than being a blonde or brunette...

I suppose it does, but why does it? I would think that various mental conditions like asperger's sydrome would have a greater impact than gender.

Furthermore, I'm not sure what's inherently impactful about one gender or the other. I know there are physical difference in hips, shoulders, and even brains, but other genetic factors effect those too. The one thing where gender is really important to me is in reproduction and finding a mate. I imagine that gender may have some inherant influence on personality, but I'm unsure to what extent. I guess in the end, I'm unsure how my life would change if my gender changed now. I don't see anything important about me that would inherently change. The only thing that would really change is my relationships with others, but I can do that without changing my gender. If I really wanted to change my relationship with others, I could more easily work on changing my demenor or personality.

[_asbestosman]

I can't pretend to understand feeling as though you're the wrong gender -- yet, I accept that some people truly feel this way. I would be mortified to wake up tomorrow and be a man! Oh! My! Goodness! My identity is wrapped in the feminine... it would be traumatic. Perhaps that's how some feel that undergo this surgery? That they feel they're a certain way and their body doesn't reflect this? I'm not sure... I should probably read up on it.

Well, to be honest I have had nightmares where I become a woman and they are nightmares. However, when I think about what would change I can't lay my finger on anything important. I could still enjoy all the things I already do except maybe nature calls. The nightmares have more to do with a fear of being ridiculed by those who know me.

[_Moniker]

I think we hear about people being unhappy with their gender because it has more of an affect on their life than being a blonde or brunette...

I suppose it does, but why does it? I would think that various mental conditions like asperger's sydrome would have a greater impact than gender.

Really? I've never considered that... Were you aware my oldest is diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome? Hmm... I don't know that it if I woke up tomorrow and had some of her attributes I'd be upset at all -- matter of fact I wish I was more like her. I'll never forget when she was about 5 and she was watching the news with me and a map popped up and she pointed to it and said what ocean she was looking at, the continents she saw and started telling me various facts about the area... she boggles my mind. She doesn't see her mind as a disability -- I don't really either. She's just not neuro-typical. She actually likes who she is and often speaks of her unique abilities that she doesn't see in her peers and siblings. Of course I've impressed a great deal of pride in her to embrace who she is. It's HER identity. My identity is being a female that isn't quite as bright and wishes she was. ;)

Furthermore, I'm not sure what's inherently impactful about one gender or the other. I know there are physical difference in hips, shoulders, and even brains, but other genetic factors effect those too. The one thing where gender is really important to me is in reproduction and finding a mate. I imagine that gender may have some inherant influence on personality, but I'm unsure to what extent. I guess in the end, I'm unsure how my life would change if my gender changed now. I don't see anything important about me that would inherently change. The only thing that would really change is my relationships with others, but I can do that without changing my gender. If I really wanted to change my relationship with others, I could more easily work on changing my demenor or personality.

Right, I think relationships with others is quite possibly the most affected by our gender. My sexuality is important to me... the way I interact with men in my life and being with certain men that appeal to me is also affected by my identity of how I view myself... I need to think more about this, really. I don't know what I just wrote. I'm babbling. :)

I was once told by a female that despised me that I was the most feminine person she'd ever known. She was attempting to insult me. I wasn't insulted in the least. I don't know quite what she meant but I'm not ashamed of being a female and have found pride in my characteristics. Yet, I don't know that I'd lose them if I had different anatomy. Oh, sheesh, I don't know.