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There have been quite a few postings pertaining to this subject over on the aptly named MADboard as of late, and it makes me wonder: What, at heart, is the "punishment" belying Mormonism? That is, what is the grand, horrible fate that will befall you if you "go astray"? This seems to me one of the very peculiar and difficult-to-nail down facets of Church doctrine, and yet, in its own way, it seems every bit as essential as the doctrine of eternal progression. So, what is the punishment? Is there a hierarchy? Or is there no real "punishment?" As I see it, there seem to be several different forms of post-mortal "hell":

---Spirit Prison
---Outer Darkness (where the Sons of Perdition are sent)
---The Telestial Kingdom (for murderers and other sinners)

So, is it fair to say that there is indeed something resembling "hell" within Mormonism? And if so, what sins are grievous enough to earn you a ticket there?

Permanent hell is accessible only to those who deny the Holy Ghost.

Temporary hell is available to all who need it to purge themselves of evil.

It should be noted that discussions of hell are aimed at those who believe in and love God. The threat of being cut off from his presence doesn't seem like a big deal unless you do. It is meant to create a healthy fear among those who believe. In the same sense, entering God's presence seems like nothing if you don't believe in him or don't particularly want to be there.

The Nehor wrote:Permanent hell is accessible only to those who deny the Holy Ghost.

So, are you saying that anyone who commits apostasy will be sent to "permanent hell"? That's interesting. I've always found that the majority of TBMs seem very unwilling to admit this.

Mister Scratch wrote:

The Nehor wrote:Permanent hell is accessible only to those who deny the Holy Ghost.

So, are you saying that anyone who commits apostasy will be sent to "permanent hell"? That's interesting. I've always found that the majority of TBMs seem very unwilling to admit this.

I apologize Scratch, I edited my comment a bit but I don't think it changes what you ask.

In answer to your question, no. Those who go to Outer Darkness will be those who come to Judgment seeing everything about God's plan and then refuse to have anything to do with it. Most apostates disbelieve. Very few believe and just hate it. They're the ones who might qualify.

Edit: I suppose it might be possible someone could disbelieve and then despise it when they find out. This is just speculation though.

I've only met two people in life that I thought might be in this circumstance and I can't say for sure at all of course. Neither were on this board.

I think D&C 76 answers this question fairly well.

Jason Bourne wrote:I think D&C 76 answers this question fairly well.

So, what is the answer then? Would somebody like, say, Polygamy Porter or Steve Benson qualify as a "son of perdition"? Will these folks be cast down into Hell in order to suffer eternal torment?

See: just as with Nehor, my experience is that TBMs tend to waffle and get uncomfortable with this question.... Is there or is there not a real, terrifying, palpable hell that has some bearing on our mortal existence?

The Nehor wrote:It should be noted that discussions of hell are aimed at those who believe in and love God. The threat of being cut off from his presence doesn't seem like a big deal unless you do. It is meant to create a healthy fear among those who believe. In the same sense, entering God's presence seems like nothing if you don't believe in him or don't particularly want to be there.

Nevertheless, from the point of view of LDS doctrine, I think we'd both have to agree that "liars, whoremongers" and other kinds of sinners can expect to encounter a very graphic a painful sort of hell, as per D&C 76. Yes, it may be temporary, but do you really want to endure "the vengeance of eternal fire," even if it's only for a month or two?

Mister Scratch wrote:

Jason Bourne wrote:I think D&C 76 answers this question fairly well.

So, what is the answer then? Would somebody like, say, Polygamy Porter or Steve Benson qualify as a "son of perdition"? Will these folks be cast down into Hell in order to suffer eternal torment?

See: just as with Nehor, my experience is that TBMs tend to waffle and get uncomfortable with this question.... Is there or is there not a real, terrifying, palpable hell that has some bearing on our mortal existence?

I wasn't meaning to waffle. I was attempting to explain why hell is described how it is.

Is there a real, terrifying, palpable hell? Yes. Most of humanity will go there for a time. A few will not get out.

Edit: As to the specific people you name, I have no idea if they qualify. When dealing with hell one should focus on one's own damnation.

Mister Scratch wrote: So, what is the answer then? Would somebody like, say, Polygamy Porter or Steve Benson qualify as a "son of perdition"? Will these folks be cast down into Hell in order to suffer eternal torment?

No, in Mormon cosmology outer darkness is reserved for only those who had a sure knowledge of God's existence and still denied him. This cosmology is very universalistic in many respects. It has been quite reasonably speculated that even from this point, forgiveness is but a request away.

moksha wrote:

Mister Scratch wrote: So, what is the answer then? Would somebody like, say, Polygamy Porter or Steve Benson qualify as a "son of perdition"? Will these folks be cast down into Hell in order to suffer eternal torment?

No, in Mormon cosmology outer darkness is reserved for only those who had a sure knowledge of God's existence and still denied him. This cosmology is very universalistic in many respects. It has been quite reasonably speculated that even from this point, forgiveness is but a request away.

But what is the doctrinal or scriptural basis for this? And moreover, does this cosmology really do anything to pooh-pooh away the fact that every non-faithful LDS or non-LDS will spend time burning in hell?