Suspend Disbelief - Grab A Magic Wand -- Poof Away Religion?

[_Moniker]

If you were able to rid the world of religion would you do so?

Obviously I don't think a magic wand will do the trick -- I actually am not certain how this would work.

I'm suspending disbelief for a moment (you can do it too!:) and pretending that I was all powerful and could somehow do this. Would you?

Would you keep some? Or do they all have to go?

[_beastie]

Heh, evidently we're both "not certain".

I would be wary of the law of unintended consequences. It seems the magic wand would have to fundamentally change human nature, and I'd guess there'd be quite a few unintended consequences of that! So I'll go with the Star Trek Prime Directive. (yeah, I'm that old) Human beings evolved as we have because it was the most conducive to survival and reproduction, and if we manage to stick around long enough, we'll continue to evolve in ways that enhance our survival and reproduction in our changed environment.

Interesting how some people interpret the statement by a particular atheist to mean that this atheist would force theists to stop believing, actually, that atheists in general would force theists to stop believing. If theists were given a similar magic wand, would they want all our eyes to be opened so we could believe, and escape hellfire or the hell of not being able to reproduce in polygamous marriages throughout all eternity? If they truly cared about us, of course they would. Could this be then interpreted to mean they'd like to force us to believe? But then apparently John Lennon's song Imagine is proof that atheists want to force theists to stop believing, too, so I guess it is.

I just do not understand why I've been left off our atheist mailing list for so long. Drat. Just one more conspiracy I've been left out of. I have just not been properly trained in our atheist "religious" dogma. It's not my fault. I can't find our "church", either.

[_dartagnan]

Interesting how some people interpret the statement by a particular atheist to mean that this atheist would force theists to stop believing, actually, that atheists in general would force theists to stop believing.

I seriously doubt any theist believes he could ever force people to not believe something. However the chant is that "religion" is dangerous, not theism. You can't stop people from being theists, but you sure as hell can take away their rights and impose legal restrictions on the organization of religions. Without organization, all religions fall.

[_Moniker]

Heh, evidently we're both "not certain".

Great minds, and all that! But, someone else voted and ruined our tea party!

I would be wary of the law of unintended consequences. It seems the magic wand would have to fundamentally change human nature, and I'd guess there'd be quite a few unintended consequences of that! So I'll go with the Star Trek Prime Directive. (yeah, I'm that old) Human beings evolved as we have because it was the most conducive to survival and reproduction, and if we manage to stick around long enough, we'll continue to evolve in ways that enhance our survival and reproduction in our changed environment.

Interesting how some people interpret the statement by a particular atheist to mean that this atheist would force theists to stop believing, actually, that atheists in general would force theists to stop believing. If theists were given a similar magic wand, would they want all our eyes to be opened so we could believe, and escape hellfire or the hell of not being able to reproduce in polygamous marriages throughout all eternity? If they truly cared about us, of course they would. Could this be then interpreted to mean they'd like to force us to believe? But then apparently John Lennon's song Imagine is proof that atheists want to force theists to stop believing, too, so I guess it is.

That's really an interesting point. I'm much more comfortable with theists NOT attempting to convert me, and perhaps that's why I find myself not attempting to press my own lack of belief upon others. Yet, when I'm confronted with those that really are pressing their religion down my choking throat I do find myself pushing back a wee bit.

I just do not understand why I've been left off our atheist mailing list for so long. Drat. Just one more conspiracy I've been left out of. I have just not been properly trained in our atheist "religious" dogma. It's not my fault. I can't find our "church", either.

Well, apparently our clique didn't get invited! Shoot!

Just for you, beastie. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0

[_beastie]

I seriously doubt any theist believes he could ever force people to not believe something. However the chant is that "religion" is dangerous, not theism. You can't stop people from being theists, but you sure as hell can take away their rights and impose legal restrictions on the organization of religions. Without organization, all religions fall.

I thought the topic wasn't religion, but theism. (referring to the pre-existing thread, not this one)

by the way, do some theists believe atheism is dangerous?

[_beastie]

Well, apparently our clique didn't get invited! Shoot!

Just for you, beastie. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0

Thanks! It was lovely. Yes, the boy was a dreamer.

I also think his song wasn't about eradicating religion per se, but rather the human tendency towards tribalism (hence his other, nonreligious references)

[_Moniker]

Well, apparently our clique didn't get invited! Shoot!

Just for you, beastie. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0

Thanks! It was lovely. Yes, the boy was a dreamer.

I also think his song wasn't about eradicating religion per se, but rather the human tendency towards tribalism (hence his other, nonreligious references)

I think that human tendency is no where near eradication and view tribalism as responsible for most horrors in the world today, and in the past.

[_beastie]

I think that human tendency is no where near eradication and view tribalism as responsible for most horrors in the world today, and in the past.

I absolutely agree! It is the tribal tendency that turns religion - or anything else capable of organizing people - into a weapon against the "others" - "others" who have already been demonized and turned into the "enemy".... just like many believers do to atheists today, and vice versa.

I don't think it can be eradicated. Robert Wright expressed the hope that as entire planet became more interconnected, we would begin to be able to view all humans as part of "our" tribe. I'm a bit more cynical. My kids and I joke that the one way to make human beings work together would be for us to be attacked by an alien race from outer space.

[_Moniker]

I think that human tendency is no where near eradication and view tribalism as responsible for most horrors in the world today, and in the past.

I absolutely agree! It is the tribal tendency that turns religion - or anything else capable of organizing people - into a weapon against the "others" - "others" who have already been demonized and turned into the "enemy".... just like many believers do to atheists today, and vice versa.

I don't think it can be eradicated. Robert Wright expressed the hope that as entire planet became more interconnected, we would begin to be able to view all humans as part of "our" tribe. I'm a bit more cynical. My kids and I joke that the one way to make human beings work together would be for us to be attacked by an alien race from outer space.

Well, that's why I don't view religion as THE big buggaboo that some others do. I don't view it really as any different than people that paint their faces, twirl 3 times, put on a lucky shirt, spend money and hours on paraphernalia, then stalk off to a pro-football game and root for their team -- they might actually get into a brawl with the opposing team's fans. Don't see it as any different than people chanting "USA! USA!" or flags being waved, political figures burnt in effigy, neo-nazis parades, street gangs, genocide, politicians brawling with opposing parties (saw this on the tele the other night in Mexico).... etc... Attempting to fit into a "group" whatever that may entail and thinking you're uber special and the other guys are the enemy is ingrained within us. We rid ourselves of religion? Okay -- so? That doesn't change the FACT that we're stuck with human nature that nutballs believe in ridiculous things and like to get together with others that do the same.

[_beastie]

All I can say is - AMEN Sister, AMEN!!!

And, by the way, if I hadn't just changed my sig line, I'd adopt this one:

That doesn't change the FACT that we're stuck with human nature that nutballs believe in ridiculous things and like to get together with others that do the same.