Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

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_BishopRic
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Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _BishopRic »

On another thread, TD said:

Quote: BRM
"I believe that the atonement of Christ is the great and eternal foundation upon which revealed religion rests. I believe that no man can be saved unless he believes that our Lord's atoning sacrifice brings immortality to all and eternal life to those who believe and obey, and no man can believe in the atonement unless he accepts both the divine sonship of Christ and the fall of Adam.

My reasoning causes me to conclude that if death has always prevailed in the world, then there was no fall of Adam that brought death to all forms of life; that if Adam did not fall, there is no need for an atonement; that if there was no atonement, there is no salvation, no resurrection, and no eternal life; and that if there was no atonement, there is nothing in all of the glorious promises that the Lord has given us. I believe that the Fall affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself, and that the Atonement affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself."



Just a little FYI... A few days ago I read in Lengthen Your Stride, a biolgraphy of SWK, that BRM's actual speech said... "WE" instead of "I" and "my" (see bold above). Kimball made him make the changes in the printed version. :-)

Regardless, BRM most certainly prayed for inspiration, and believed he was receiving help from the HG as he taught these "truths".

I think most faithful members believe the prophets and apostles when they are speaking in an official capactiy under the influence of the HG. I know several who hold the opinion that if one believes in evolution they do not have a true testimony of the LDS church and the plan of salvation.
~dancer~


The question it brings up is, are the church leaders inspired sometimes, and not other times? It seems throughout LDS history, leaders have said things from the pulpit of general conference that are accepted and revered as absolute doctrinal truth, then declared "only his opinion" by later leaders.

But the same person bears strong testimony of something, and his statement is not even questioned as "true" or untrue -- even if his earlier declarations are discredited. The most poignant example may be McConkie, with his bold statements about evolution, the Great and Abomonable Church, etc...and his last testimony of his experience of seeing the Savior.

Is he to be believed? Is there no active member who might apply common rules of our court system with regard to "credibility of the witness," and consider that everything he said may be "his opinion" only?

It seems to me this is one small example of how rules of logic are suspended in Mormonism often. What it appears to me is a common "the end justifies the means" attitude so often. Sorta like the mission in Chile where they made up names to pad the records...made the church look good, so it's okay?
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
_moksha
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _moksha »

BishopRic wrote:
The question it brings up is, are the church leaders inspired sometimes, and not other times? It seems throughout LDS history, leaders have said things from the pulpit of general conference that are accepted and revered as absolute doctrinal truth, then declared "only his opinion" by later leaders.


I think of prophecy and Divine inspiration as as akin to communication on a set of walkie-talkies. Sometimes there is a signal and sometimes there is no signal. When no signal is received, the person in the field is left to their own devices. Prophets are not hardwired into the mind of God.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_BishopRic
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _BishopRic »

moksha wrote:
BishopRic wrote:
The question it brings up is, are the church leaders inspired sometimes, and not other times? It seems throughout LDS history, leaders have said things from the pulpit of general conference that are accepted and revered as absolute doctrinal truth, then declared "only his opinion" by later leaders.


I think of prophecy and Divine inspiration as as akin to communication on a set of walkie-talkies. Sometimes there is a signal and sometimes there is no signal. When no signal is received, the person in the field is left to their own devices. Prophets are not hardwired into the mind of God.


But it seems like when the walkie-talkie isn't working, the person is going to know it. These leaders have said, with just as much conviction, that the doctrines (later declared opinion) were from God. Can they be trusted at all with that type of history?

I believe most leaders do the best they can to "get the right answer." I really think most are sincere in their belief that it is from God. I just also believe that the history I described is evidence that they have no more of a conduit to God than anybody else.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
_moksha
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _moksha »

BishopRic wrote:
moksha wrote:
BishopRic wrote:
The question it brings up is, are the church leaders inspired sometimes, and not other times? It seems throughout LDS history, leaders have said things from the pulpit of general conference that are accepted and revered as absolute doctrinal truth, then declared "only his opinion" by later leaders.


I think of prophecy and Divine inspiration as as akin to communication on a set of walkie-talkies. Sometimes there is a signal and sometimes there is no signal. When no signal is received, the person in the field is left to their own devices. Prophets are not hardwired into the mind of God.


But it seems like when the walkie-talkie isn't working, the person is going to know it.


Maybe God never said "over and out". I suspect that they either thought they were still receiving or else wanted to add some legitimacy to what they wanted or were talking about.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Moniker
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _Moniker »

moksha wrote:I think of prophecy and Divine inspiration as as akin to communication on a set of walkie-talkies. Sometimes there is a signal and sometimes there is no signal. When no signal is received, the person in the field is left to their own devices. Prophets are not hardwired into the mind of God.


Do Prophets have the guidance of the HG too? How does that work? I am completely befuddled at this. I've asked this numerous times and don't get a reasonable answer. If the Prophet does NOT speak for God at times then what exactly IS the purpose of a Prophet? If the HG of individual members contradict each other AND the prophet it seems to me that EVERYONE is just relying on their feelings of whatever the proposition is.

Paging Nehor!
_moksha
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _moksha »

Moniker wrote:
moksha wrote:Do Prophets have the guidance of the HG too?


Image I suspect we all have that still small voice prompting us to do the right thing.
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_harmony
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _harmony »

moksha wrote:Maybe God never said "over and out". I suspect that they either thought they were still receiving or else wanted to add some legitimacy to what they wanted or were talking about.


a.k.a. the teachings of men.
_Moniker
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _Moniker »

moksha wrote:

Image I suspect we all have that still small voice prompting us to do the right thing.


Yet, that still small voice contradicts others.

Man, those are some BIG crickets fighting with each other!

Image
_BishopRic
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _BishopRic »

harmony wrote:
moksha wrote:Maybe God never said "over and out". I suspect that they either thought they were still receiving or else wanted to add some legitimacy to what they wanted or were talking about.


a.k.a. the teachings of men.


Exactly. I know this contradicts everything Mormon, but I believe that we all have equal access to whatever higher source there is. I think that whenever a person claims to be more enlightened about what is right for me (or any other person), he/she oversteps the bounds of inspiration. I think that "God" works uniquely with each one of us, and as such, there is no person more entitled to know my unique journey than...ME!

(but then, where does "religion" fit in???????)
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
_Dr. Shades
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Re: Do Mormon leaders receive selective inspiration?

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Moniker wrote:Man, those are some BIG crickets fighting with each other!

Image


No, they're just really close to the camera.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
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