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Since I am not allowed to post my remark opposing the premise in Nehor's "Faith-Based" thread in the Celestial forum, I must start this new, redundant thread in the Terrestrial forum.

I disagree that "Faith-Based" threads need to be renamed. It's best to do away with them entirely, for many reasons. Why not disagree with a supposition politely in the same thread in which the supposition was originally made, if it were made in the Celestial forum? It seems so much easier that way, and following different threads in different forums is cumbersome and repetitive!

If anyone posts something provocative or annoying, such as "God isn't real, so I don't know why you're blathering on so..." then simply ignore their comment!

Until then, I will post contradictory thoughts to Celestial "Faith Based" threads down here in the Terrestrial forum, clogging the board with unnecessary and redundant posts. Sorry. I must. It's the only way.

KA

Now if I think some of your reply here in the lower kingdom is faith based and might contribute to the restricted thread, I'll need to cut and paste it into a reply in the upper kingdom thread. Then either you won't ever see it. Or you'll see it but need to reply to it down here again, in this redundant, board-clogging thread. That would be a swell way to carry on a discussion!

KimberlyAnn wrote:Since I am not allowed to post my remark opposing the premise in Nehor's "Faith-Based" thread in the Celestial forum, I must start this new, redundant thread in the Terrestrial forum.

I disagree that "Faith-Based" threads need to be renamed. It's best to do away with them entirely, for many reasons. Why not disagree with a supposition politely in the same thread in which the supposition was originally made, if it were made in the Celestial forum? It seems so much easier that way, and following different threads in different forums is cumbersome and repetitive!

If anyone posts something provocative or annoying, such as "God isn't real, so I don't know why you're blathering on so..." then simply ignore their comment!

Until then, I will post contradictory thoughts to Celestial "Faith Based" threads down here in the Terrestrial forum, clogging the board with unnecessary and redundant posts. Sorry. I must. It's the only way.

KA

Because JAK, Merc, and others don't possess either the inclination or the ability to politely state that they disagree with the supposition. It includes insults or a long rambling explanation of how you haven't established the proposition 'God". Then their enemies jump into the fray and it turns into a free for all of accusations about ad hominems and endless arguments over what constitutes evidence.

Idiotic and massively over-exaggerated protest duly noted, KA.

Carry on with your crusade.

KimberlyAnn wrote:Since I am not allowed to post my remark opposing the premise in Nehor's "Faith-Based" thread in the Celestial forum, I must start this new, redundant thread in the Terrestrial forum.

I disagree that "Faith-Based" threads need to be renamed. It's best to do away with them entirely, for many reasons. Why not disagree with a supposition politely in the same thread in which the supposition was originally made, if it were made in the Celestial forum? It seems so much easier that way, and following different threads in different forums is cumbersome and repetitive!

If anyone posts something provocative or annoying, such as "God isn't real, so I don't know why you're blathering on so..." then simply ignore their comment!

Until then, I will post contradictory thoughts to Celestial "Faith Based" threads down here in the Terrestrial forum, clogging the board with unnecessary and redundant posts. Sorry. I must. It's the only way.

KA

Well KA it's already been happening, in which threads have been moved to Celestial or started up in Celestial with the intent of being mod protected due to it being faith based. It is more honest to be totally upfront and say explicitly as a rule of the board, that if specified certain faith assumptions are off limits. As long as the rules are known, and that a particular thread is not meant to be intellectually honest, that it allows the assumption of the irrational, then critics will have little interest in that thread. Obviously other people will, but that's fine. The way things are currently there is antagonism because on both sides it is not clear what exactly is allowed. The board is unique because it deals with a subject religion which is based upon the irrational. If one wants to attract religious individuals to the board for discussion there needs to be one place on it, where they can comfortably express themselves.

marg wrote:

KimberlyAnn wrote:Since I am not allowed to post my remark opposing the premise in Nehor's "Faith-Based" thread in the Celestial forum, I must start this new, redundant thread in the Terrestrial forum.

I disagree that "Faith-Based" threads need to be renamed. It's best to do away with them entirely, for many reasons. Why not disagree with a supposition politely in the same thread in which the supposition was originally made, if it were made in the Celestial forum? It seems so much easier that way, and following different threads in different forums is cumbersome and repetitive!

If anyone posts something provocative or annoying, such as "God isn't real, so I don't know why you're blathering on so..." then simply ignore their comment!

Until then, I will post contradictory thoughts to Celestial "Faith Based" threads down here in the Terrestrial forum, clogging the board with unnecessary and redundant posts. Sorry. I must. It's the only way.

KA

Well KA it's already been happening, in which threads have been moved to Celestial or started up in Celestial with the intent of being mod protected due to it being faith based. It is more honest to be totally upfront and say explicitly as a rule of the board, that if specified certain faith assumptions are off limits. As long as the rules are known, and that a particular thread is not meant to be intellectually honest, that it allows the assumption of the irrational, then critics will have little interest in that thread. Obviously other people will, but that's fine. The way things are currently there is antagonism because on both sides it is not clear what exactly is allowed. The board is unique because it deals with a subject religion which is based upon the irrational. If one wants to attract religious individuals to the board for discussion there needs to be one place on it, where they can comfortably express themselves.

Marg, you've hit on it exactly here!

This is a religious debate board. EVERYTHING in religion is irrational, right from the very concept of God. If a poster chooses to make his/her baseline of irrationality at a certain level, we ask that you don't try and undermine that level. Debate from that level of irrationality up.

Scottie wrote:Idiotic and massively over-exaggerated protest duly noted, KA.

Carry on with your crusade.

How is it idiotic and over-exaggerated?

This is what Liz said in the Sticky thread:

If you indicate this, then the thread is off limits as far as being challenged or derailed. The following perimeters immediately exist:

If the discussion involves God, then someone shouldn't come in and start arguing the existence of God. For the purpose of that thread, God exists. That's the given. (I.e....God, Buddha, whatever the higher power being discussed is).

If the thread is discussing, for example, points of LDS doctrine, then someone shouldn't come in and start challenging the validity of LDS doctrine For the purpose of that faith based thread, LDS doctrine is valid. Or Catholic doctrine is valid...or whatever type of religious doctrine is being discussed.

Nehor labeled his thread "Faith-Based" and asserted that the "Faith-Based" thread idea is valid but should be renamed. For the purpose of his thread, that must be assumed true, no? The thread is "off-limits as far as being challenged or derailed." I could not simply go onto his thread and challenge the validity of his argument. It was explained that if one wants to challenge the premise of a Faith Based thread started in the Celestial forum, one must start a new thread in the Terrestrial forum. What is idiotic is that replies to such threads must be made thusly.

KA

KA, you've been in the other thread and know EXACTLY the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish here.

You know damned well your comments were perfectly acceptable in that thread, and you're just trying to further your personal crusade.

Scottie, my opposition to the new rule isn't directed personally at you. And, it's not just me who disagrees with the new guidelines.

The fact is that my post in reply to Nehor should not be allowed on his Celestial forum thread under the new posting guidelines. Interpreting the "spirit" of the law is unnecessary when the letter of it is so very clear. If you don't like the letter of the law the way it's written, then change it. Don't fuss because I'm self-regulating and following the rules.

KA

Maybe the wording in Liz's stickes should be changed from "challenge" to "challenge the background assumptions."

For example, let's say there was a fired-up philosophy major on the board who loved to argue against the Cartesian principle of "I think, therefore I am." Let's say he denied that any of us actually exist.

In such a case, whenever anyone posted anything about any topic in any forum, our hypothetical philosopher would ALWAYS jump in with, "Why should any of us bother to respond to you, since it cannot be demonstrated conclusively that you actually made this post? Since we can only derive data from sensory input, and sensory organs can be defeated, why should mere consensus cause us to assume your existence, since majority opinions have demonstrably been proven to have been incorrect in the past?"

. . . and so it goes in EVERY post, thus causing EVERY thread to devolve into a philosophical discussion on the nature of existence or non-existence.

See what we mean?

In this light, the main problem is that whenever JAK would participate in a Celestial Thread, it would ALWAYS degenerate into whether or not God exists and/or whether the Bible is a reliable guide. NOTHING ELSE COULD GET DONE. We're merely trying to facilitate a greater breadth of discussion by allowing a thread-starter to position the starting line wherever he or she sees fit.