If Spirit=Truth then God Doesn't Exist...
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:10 pm
You know what?...us LDS'Relief Society teach that God is a God of Truth who cannot lie, if He did, He'd cease to be God. But if he showed up today to shake your hand He'd say "Hello, My name is Bob. I am the one and only true God who cannot lie. I am however lying to you by my prophets who are in apostasy and who have taught and continue to teach false revelations and false doctrines. I will never allow them to lead you astray, but I have done so, and I continue to do so". And then POOF, he'd disappear. Unless of course...unless...just maybe...it's a Church NOT run directly by God Himself as we've been 'correlatedly' indoctrinated and mind-controlled to believe.
MY DEAD WIFE:
You know, several years ago my my wife and I were spiritually sure she was soon going to pass away, we didn't know how or when, but we were both 'prompted' this would happen. One day after work I was pulling up to our house and I just knew it. She had died. Burning in the bosom, Holy Ghost testified to me the truth of these things, same feeling I've had in knowing the truth about Book of Mormon and LDS Church and prophets and other spiritual experiences. I actually talked to her (with the 'eyes of my understanding' and in a spirit of 'entrancement' -- just like David Whitmer and Martin Harris and 7 other of the 11 witnesses testimonies were based upon). I knew by the Holy Ghost she was dead, a car crash specifically. I also knew because I was talking with her, spiritually, in my mind. She had really died. No doubt about it. I could have and would have testified to you that I knew that was true, even before the police showed up to tell me, which I was sure they were going to do at any moment. I went inside, paced the floor and wondered how I'd tell our kids, her family, what was I going to do. That is of course, until she walked through the front door...
GORDON B. HINCKLEY's EXTRA 6 YEARS
In 2001 during the Winter Quarter’s Temple Dedication (April 2001-ish?) I recall listening to Hinckley cry and get very emotional that this was a very special event for him, for he did not feel that he would live long enough to visit Winter Quarters again. He left all who heard him to feel and believe his earthly sojourn would be over ‘very soon’ (anyone else remember this)?. 6+ years later he passed away. Looks like Hinckley’s false spiritual premonitions and mine are a lot alike (ie. my ‘conversation with my dead wife’ --- until she walked through the front door). If the prophet can get it wrong…I guess I can too. Wait, does that mean that I could be a prophet?!
JOSEPH SMITH: $5,000 Book of Mormon COPYRIGHT
The spirit, via the rock in his hat, told Joseph Smith to send others on a mission to Canada to sell the copyright for the Book of Mormon for $5,000. It utterly failed. Why? Cuz it was Joseph Smith's thoughts and feelings he was 'seeing' in the rock in his hat (BH Roberts take on cog-dis trying to make it 'work' for him).
JOSEPH SMITH: SALEM (D&C 111)
The spirit, via the rock in his hat, told Joseph Smith and others to follow the rumors about gold being hidden in the basement of the house in Salem. Just like he couldn't find gold or treasure for 7+ years with this rock prior to 'finding' the Book of Mormon with the rock, he also could not find the buried treasure in the basement of this house. God turned the treasure hunt into a missionary journey apparently.
JOSEPH SMITH: KIRKLAND BANK
The spirit, via a voice and via revelation, or God Himself, either way, pretty high up on the Godhead latter, tells Joseph that this bank will outlast all other banks and 'eat up' all other banks and for people to give their $$$ to this bank. Band failed = failed revelation = false spirit? Or, maybe it was Joseph hearing his own mind, just as he 'saw' his own mind in the rock for the Salem gold treasure hunt?
JOSEPH SMITH SR: Angels and Gold.
Wilford Woodruff was blessed by Joseph Smith SR that an angel would show up and tell Wilford where the buried treasure was... (never happened...unless of course WW keep it secret...). Magical worldview...focus on gold and buried treasure...yet again...and the spirit is involved too of course, unless it's just 'men' speaking as men (then they ain't prophets then is they?)
Anyone else see the gold and magical world view continuation here? Even the Book of Mormon has gold and treasure slipping around in the ground once it's buried...JUST LIKE the magical worldview Joseph Smith grew up with.
But I digress...
BISHOP BLESSES A DEAD BABY:
A lady in our ward was blessed by an old bishop of ours that her baby would be well and healthy etc. It had been aborted 3 weeks earlier. She managed to push this aside and file it in the "i felt the spirit so I know it's true, but my baby was dead so I don't understand but I don't need to understand" file. The Bishop told her after the 'error' was brought up to him by this dear sister: "Sorry sister, I felt the spirit and said what it told me to say". Seems to me he was not listening to the spirit of truth which cannot lie.
BY: ADAM IS GOD: 30 YEARS OF TEACHING
BY taught for about 30 years that Adam is our Heavenly Father. It's actually in our 1997 Teachings BY Manual, pages 50-51. BY taught this was revealed to him by God Himself, it was part of the St. George temple ceremony. It was DOCTRINE that would send you to HELL for simply not believing it! Today it will send you to hell for actively teaching it cuz you'd get ex'd. Seems the spirit of revelation was 'wrong' for BY for 30 years.
The Heaven's Gate / Hale Bop cult, if you watch their testimonies, give LDS TBM testimonies.
They know:
- God told them to join
- God told them to castrate themselves (heck, that bishop and BY were ok with castrating unbelievers back in the day, nothing wrong with a good castration!)
- They know independently of any other person or being on earth through the Spirit that what they are doing is right
- Theirs is the only right way
- When the comet comes they will shed their containers and be truly one and happy
The spirit, to me, is no longer something that can be trusted to reveal "truth". If "prophets, seers and revelators" who cannot lead us astray are indeed led astray by the spirit...what hope do we have of not getting it wrong? Are we to be better at 'it' or more accurate then God's prophets who converse with him (wink wink)? SHOULD WE have to be more accurate than they?
To me, it is not the spirit, it's simply a spiritual feeling and experience, common to all mankind, in every religion. Spirit does not equal truth...if it does, the LDS Church is in full apostasy (ie. when W. Woodruff gives a revelation to end polygamy in 1890, yet 11/12 of the apostles at that time, including himself, take additional wives in the years after that 'revelation'...that equals apostasy of the LDS Church from the very top...unless it was NOT a revelation...which of course then means they lied and we are still being lied to about it being a revelation...nawww, the God of Truth who cannot lie would never lie to us via his prophets...would He? Unless of course they're 'just men'...which of course then means 'they ain't prophets'...it can't be both: but to the TBM mindset it HAS to be both...or else it becomes false and untrue).
The typical TBM LDS'r can see HG as being a cult and whacked and wrong. And they can also see the partial laundry list I wrote above, if it were talking about, oh, say, Popes of the Catholic Church, as proof of the Catholic church as being FALSE...for there are FALSE spiritual witnesses, prophets lying and deceiving and hunting treasure and focusing on gold and of giving false revelation and teaching false doctrine.
TBM's can also say in the same breath that God says it's TRUE via his Spirit to them so all of these things are 'minor issues' (can we say "cognitive dissonance"? say it with me people...the Hale Bop people said it, and you can too).
How do I know this? Not by the spirit. But by feeling the 'spirit', for years, and living in cog-dis-land, and of being as TBM as they come for years and holding all of these issues as 'minor and unimportant'...until I learned that 1+1 equals 2 and not 3. I've grown up spiritually (in my view). I made two columns, just like GBH suggested. One was "True" the other "False, Fraud and Man-Made". I then took each issue and asked myself where each issue 'fit'. The only thing in the "True" column, was that I'd 'felt the spirit'...100% of everything else fit into the "False, Fraud and Man-Made" column. When you look at that, visually, your brain kinda 'snaps' and you see things as they really are.
Again...you know what?...us LDS'Relief Society teach that God is a God of Truth who cannot lie, if He did, He'd cease to be God. But if he showed up today to shake your hand He'd say "Hello, My name is Bob. I am the one and only true God who cannot lie. I am however lying to you by my prophets who are in apostasy and who have taught and continue to teach false revelations and false doctrines. I will never allow them to lead you astray, but I have done so, and I continue to do so". And then POOF, he'd disappear. Unless of course...unless...just maybe...it's a Church NOT run directly by God Himself as we've been 'correlatedly' indoctrinated and mind-controlled to believe.
Best.
RE
MY DEAD WIFE:
You know, several years ago my my wife and I were spiritually sure she was soon going to pass away, we didn't know how or when, but we were both 'prompted' this would happen. One day after work I was pulling up to our house and I just knew it. She had died. Burning in the bosom, Holy Ghost testified to me the truth of these things, same feeling I've had in knowing the truth about Book of Mormon and LDS Church and prophets and other spiritual experiences. I actually talked to her (with the 'eyes of my understanding' and in a spirit of 'entrancement' -- just like David Whitmer and Martin Harris and 7 other of the 11 witnesses testimonies were based upon). I knew by the Holy Ghost she was dead, a car crash specifically. I also knew because I was talking with her, spiritually, in my mind. She had really died. No doubt about it. I could have and would have testified to you that I knew that was true, even before the police showed up to tell me, which I was sure they were going to do at any moment. I went inside, paced the floor and wondered how I'd tell our kids, her family, what was I going to do. That is of course, until she walked through the front door...
GORDON B. HINCKLEY's EXTRA 6 YEARS
In 2001 during the Winter Quarter’s Temple Dedication (April 2001-ish?) I recall listening to Hinckley cry and get very emotional that this was a very special event for him, for he did not feel that he would live long enough to visit Winter Quarters again. He left all who heard him to feel and believe his earthly sojourn would be over ‘very soon’ (anyone else remember this)?. 6+ years later he passed away. Looks like Hinckley’s false spiritual premonitions and mine are a lot alike (ie. my ‘conversation with my dead wife’ --- until she walked through the front door). If the prophet can get it wrong…I guess I can too. Wait, does that mean that I could be a prophet?!
JOSEPH SMITH: $5,000 Book of Mormon COPYRIGHT
The spirit, via the rock in his hat, told Joseph Smith to send others on a mission to Canada to sell the copyright for the Book of Mormon for $5,000. It utterly failed. Why? Cuz it was Joseph Smith's thoughts and feelings he was 'seeing' in the rock in his hat (BH Roberts take on cog-dis trying to make it 'work' for him).
JOSEPH SMITH: SALEM (D&C 111)
The spirit, via the rock in his hat, told Joseph Smith and others to follow the rumors about gold being hidden in the basement of the house in Salem. Just like he couldn't find gold or treasure for 7+ years with this rock prior to 'finding' the Book of Mormon with the rock, he also could not find the buried treasure in the basement of this house. God turned the treasure hunt into a missionary journey apparently.
JOSEPH SMITH: KIRKLAND BANK
The spirit, via a voice and via revelation, or God Himself, either way, pretty high up on the Godhead latter, tells Joseph that this bank will outlast all other banks and 'eat up' all other banks and for people to give their $$$ to this bank. Band failed = failed revelation = false spirit? Or, maybe it was Joseph hearing his own mind, just as he 'saw' his own mind in the rock for the Salem gold treasure hunt?
JOSEPH SMITH SR: Angels and Gold.
Wilford Woodruff was blessed by Joseph Smith SR that an angel would show up and tell Wilford where the buried treasure was... (never happened...unless of course WW keep it secret...). Magical worldview...focus on gold and buried treasure...yet again...and the spirit is involved too of course, unless it's just 'men' speaking as men (then they ain't prophets then is they?)
Anyone else see the gold and magical world view continuation here? Even the Book of Mormon has gold and treasure slipping around in the ground once it's buried...JUST LIKE the magical worldview Joseph Smith grew up with.
But I digress...
BISHOP BLESSES A DEAD BABY:
A lady in our ward was blessed by an old bishop of ours that her baby would be well and healthy etc. It had been aborted 3 weeks earlier. She managed to push this aside and file it in the "i felt the spirit so I know it's true, but my baby was dead so I don't understand but I don't need to understand" file. The Bishop told her after the 'error' was brought up to him by this dear sister: "Sorry sister, I felt the spirit and said what it told me to say". Seems to me he was not listening to the spirit of truth which cannot lie.
BY: ADAM IS GOD: 30 YEARS OF TEACHING
BY taught for about 30 years that Adam is our Heavenly Father. It's actually in our 1997 Teachings BY Manual, pages 50-51. BY taught this was revealed to him by God Himself, it was part of the St. George temple ceremony. It was DOCTRINE that would send you to HELL for simply not believing it! Today it will send you to hell for actively teaching it cuz you'd get ex'd. Seems the spirit of revelation was 'wrong' for BY for 30 years.
The Heaven's Gate / Hale Bop cult, if you watch their testimonies, give LDS TBM testimonies.
They know:
- God told them to join
- God told them to castrate themselves (heck, that bishop and BY were ok with castrating unbelievers back in the day, nothing wrong with a good castration!)
- They know independently of any other person or being on earth through the Spirit that what they are doing is right
- Theirs is the only right way
- When the comet comes they will shed their containers and be truly one and happy
The spirit, to me, is no longer something that can be trusted to reveal "truth". If "prophets, seers and revelators" who cannot lead us astray are indeed led astray by the spirit...what hope do we have of not getting it wrong? Are we to be better at 'it' or more accurate then God's prophets who converse with him (wink wink)? SHOULD WE have to be more accurate than they?
To me, it is not the spirit, it's simply a spiritual feeling and experience, common to all mankind, in every religion. Spirit does not equal truth...if it does, the LDS Church is in full apostasy (ie. when W. Woodruff gives a revelation to end polygamy in 1890, yet 11/12 of the apostles at that time, including himself, take additional wives in the years after that 'revelation'...that equals apostasy of the LDS Church from the very top...unless it was NOT a revelation...which of course then means they lied and we are still being lied to about it being a revelation...nawww, the God of Truth who cannot lie would never lie to us via his prophets...would He? Unless of course they're 'just men'...which of course then means 'they ain't prophets'...it can't be both: but to the TBM mindset it HAS to be both...or else it becomes false and untrue).
The typical TBM LDS'r can see HG as being a cult and whacked and wrong. And they can also see the partial laundry list I wrote above, if it were talking about, oh, say, Popes of the Catholic Church, as proof of the Catholic church as being FALSE...for there are FALSE spiritual witnesses, prophets lying and deceiving and hunting treasure and focusing on gold and of giving false revelation and teaching false doctrine.
TBM's can also say in the same breath that God says it's TRUE via his Spirit to them so all of these things are 'minor issues' (can we say "cognitive dissonance"? say it with me people...the Hale Bop people said it, and you can too).
How do I know this? Not by the spirit. But by feeling the 'spirit', for years, and living in cog-dis-land, and of being as TBM as they come for years and holding all of these issues as 'minor and unimportant'...until I learned that 1+1 equals 2 and not 3. I've grown up spiritually (in my view). I made two columns, just like GBH suggested. One was "True" the other "False, Fraud and Man-Made". I then took each issue and asked myself where each issue 'fit'. The only thing in the "True" column, was that I'd 'felt the spirit'...100% of everything else fit into the "False, Fraud and Man-Made" column. When you look at that, visually, your brain kinda 'snaps' and you see things as they really are.
Again...you know what?...us LDS'Relief Society teach that God is a God of Truth who cannot lie, if He did, He'd cease to be God. But if he showed up today to shake your hand He'd say "Hello, My name is Bob. I am the one and only true God who cannot lie. I am however lying to you by my prophets who are in apostasy and who have taught and continue to teach false revelations and false doctrines. I will never allow them to lead you astray, but I have done so, and I continue to do so". And then POOF, he'd disappear. Unless of course...unless...just maybe...it's a Church NOT run directly by God Himself as we've been 'correlatedly' indoctrinated and mind-controlled to believe.
Best.
RE