DiscussMormonism.com

There are individuals on this board that construct elaborate comparisons in order to shed positive light on unpopular and silly beliefs. What does it profit from constructing an artificial reality in order to prove ones point?

Sadly this is predominate within Mormonism, creating an atmosphere in which alternate realities are used to justify illogical belief systems. As an example look to the train engineer/Jesus sacrifice/kid-on-the-tracks "tool-istic" analogy often served up to justify belief in Jesus.

Combined with this is the smugness to then turn around and say that because one disagrees with an analogy/allegory one is unable to fathom said analogy and should try to attain a heightened education in order to accept the analogy.

Sigh.

What is train engineer/Jesus sacrifice/kid-on-the-tracks?

Scottie wrote:What is train engineer/Jesus sacrifice/kid-on-the-tracks?

Aptly, from Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/drawbridge.asp

I think it best to simply point out deficiencies in the analogies. In the train example, point out that the child did not willingly die, but did so ignorantly. Also point out that although Jesus sacrificed His life for us, He didn't sacrifice His salvation by undergoing permanent spiritual death which would be our fate had He not atoned for us.

I suspect that I (besides Wade) am an individual whom you feel is using false analogies to make the church look better, by all means explain where mine fail. Also try to keep the natural bounds of my analogies in mind since all analogies fail at some point. I don't think I've once complained about another's ability to grasp the analogy. All I have complained about is whether or not one uderstands the bounds I had in mind and what point I was actually trying to make.

asbestosman wrote:I think it best to simply point out deficiencies in the analogies. In the train example, point out that the child did not willingly die, but did so ignorantly. Also point out that although Jesus sacrificed His life for us, He didn't sacrifice His salvation by undergoing permanent spiritual death which would be our fate had He not atoned for us.

I suspect that I (besides Wade) am an individual whom you feel is using false analogies to make the church look better, by all means explain where mine fail. Also try to keep the natural bounds of my analogies in mind since all analogies fail at some point. I don't think I've once complained about another's ability to grasp the analogy. All I have complained about is whether or not one uderstands the bounds I had in mind and what point I was actually trying to make.

The thing is that you listen to reason where wade only listens to himself.

for some this is as close we get to peer review which is good in the long run as it helps us - some have the gift or luck to see through things, others might have been in a smoke and mirrors game for too long to understand it. I think when you have brother so and so as your sunday school teacher and listen to his thought process and the like then it is likely you might not be able to compare two things. Imagine sunday school with that Dr. Denning guy for years as a teenager as you would likely be able to see things clearly. The sad thing is that the combination of time spent in church could have been used for so many other great things including reading about the critical thinking process.

I'd never heard of the traintrack Jesus thing. I'd heard of that story set up as a dilemma -- what would you do, sort of a question. Yet, not in relation to Jesus.

Asbestosman, I like all your analogies.. mine usually fail -- and you point that out. :)

Moniker wrote:Asbestosman, I like all your analogies.. mine usually fail -- and you point that out. :)

Thanks, but I'm having a hard time remembering when you made an analogy that failed. I think you're just dreaming that I've pointed out something like that because I swear I don't remember any such thing. Where you and I fail is in understanding the other's intent. It happens all the time whether it's about Asperger's, parenting, or lots of other things.

asbestosman wrote:

Moniker wrote:Asbestosman, I like all your analogies.. mine usually fail -- and you point that out. :)

Thanks, but I'm having a hard time remembering when you made an analogy that failed. I think you're just dreaming that I've pointed out something like that because I swear I don't remember any such thing. Where you and I fail is in understanding the other's intent. It happens all the time whether it's about Asperger's, parenting, or lots of other things.

Yah, we do sort of misunderstand each other quite a bit.... yet, we work it out. :)

Analogies are a tool for simplifying and explaining. Not for arguing. If someone uses an analogy in an argument, they're using the wrong tool for the job.