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On another thread, it was suggested that in order to move forward, we should forget about the bad parts of Mormon history. You know, exclusion of blacks from the priesthood, polygamy, MMM, "curing homosexuality," etc..

Start with a clean slate. We all make mistakes. Sounds good, in the spirit of repentence, forgiveness and love -- right?

Here's the problem I have with it. It is this same history that created the essence of the church! The magical money-digging seer stone that facilitated the translation of "the most perfect book on earth." The revelation that eternal marriage (polygamy") was required to get to the highest degree of heaven. That this priesthood withheld from the blacks was required to perform the ordinances to get us all into heaven...

How do we separate all that?

I'll make you a deal: you forget yours, and I'll forget mine. You stop promoting the first vision (especially the one you like to talk about), the claim of "the only true church on earth," the claim that the Book of Mormon is a true history of the America's for 1000 years, etc. -- and start teaching ONLY love, service, compassion, respect of differences, repentence, forgiveness, sekf-worth....

And I'll stop talking about the "bad parts" of your past too.

Deal?

BishopRic wrote:On another thread, it was suggested that in order to move forward, we should forget about the bad parts of Mormon history. You know, exclusion of blacks from the priesthood, polygamy, MMM, "curing homosexuality," etc..

Start with a clean slate. We all make mistakes. Sounds good, in the spirit of repentence, forgiveness and love -- right?

Here's the problem I have with it. It is this same history that created the essence of the church! The magical money-digging seer stone that facilitated the translation of "the most perfect book on earth." The revelation that eternal marriage (polygamy") was required to get to the highest degree of heaven. That this priesthood withheld from the blacks was required to perform the ordinances to get us all into heaven...

How do we separate all that?

I'll make you a deal: you forget yours, and I'll forget mine. You stop promoting the first vision (especially the one you like to talk about), the claim of "the only true church on earth," the claim that the Book of Mormon is a true history of the America's for 1000 years, etc. -- and start teaching ONLY love, service, compassion, respect of differences, repentence, forgiveness, sekf-worth....

And I'll stop talking about the "bad parts" of your past too.

Deal?

Personally, I think the church made a huge mistake when the leaders decided to hide the history. Such an action leads to the conclusion that the leaders are ashamed of their history. I think they should teach it, all of it. Hiding it just makes them look suspicious.

It's along the same lines of "some truths aren't useful".

Whenever I'm presented with this, I ask if Joseph Smith refusing alcohol when he had surgery is a useful truth or not? That little gem of a story gets passed around A LOT.

Soooo...why is there room in church to talk about that, which has no bearing on ANYTHING, but we can't talk about any of the warts?

harmony wrote:

BishopRic wrote:On another thread, it was suggested that in order to move forward, we should forget about the bad parts of Mormon history. You know, exclusion of blacks from the priesthood, polygamy, MMM, "curing homosexuality," etc..

Start with a clean slate. We all make mistakes. Sounds good, in the spirit of repentence, forgiveness and love -- right?

Here's the problem I have with it. It is this same history that created the essence of the church! The magical money-digging seer stone that facilitated the translation of "the most perfect book on earth." The revelation that eternal marriage (polygamy") was required to get to the highest degree of heaven. That this priesthood withheld from the blacks was required to perform the ordinances to get us all into heaven...

How do we separate all that?

I'll make you a deal: you forget yours, and I'll forget mine. You stop promoting the first vision (especially the one you like to talk about), the claim of "the only true church on earth," the claim that the Book of Mormon is a true history of the America's for 1000 years, etc. -- and start teaching ONLY love, service, compassion, respect of differences, repentence, forgiveness, sekf-worth....

And I'll stop talking about the "bad parts" of your past too.

Deal?

Personally, I think the church made a huge mistake when the leaders decided to hide the history. Such an action leads to the conclusion that the leaders are ashamed of their history. I think they should teach it, all of it. Hiding it just makes them look suspicious.

Yes, it did for me...and made (makes) me wonder what else might be hidden. If they opened the vaults again, this time for all to see, it might be a good first step to total honesty. As Scottie said, the "some truths aren't useful" approach wreaks of censorship and control.

Its the only choice they have. Would you honestly still take them seriously as a world religion if they confronted the bad history upfront?

This is the issue that drives my disdain for Mormonism. It can ONLY function as an organization built on lies and misdeeds.

The operating system of the church has been rooted and there is no way to restore the kernel. No hope for help other than putting a bullet in the box.

BishopRic wrote:

harmony wrote:Personally, I think the church made a huge mistake when the leaders decided to hide the history. Such an action leads to the conclusion that the leaders are ashamed of their history. I think they should teach it, all of it. Hiding it just makes them look suspicious.

Yes, it did for me...and made (makes) me wonder what else might be hidden. If they opened the vaults again, this time for all to see, it might be a good first step to total honesty. As Scottie said, the "some truths aren't useful" approach wreaks of censorship and control.

I think they should take everything out of the vaults and put it all in the museum. Everything.

BishopRic wrote:On another thread, it was suggested that in order to move forward, we should forget about the bad parts of Mormon history. You know, exclusion of blacks from the priesthood, polygamy, MMM, "curing homosexuality," etc..

Start with a clean slate. We all make mistakes. Sounds good, in the spirit of repentence, forgiveness and love -- right?

Here's the problem I have with it. It is this same history that created the essence of the church! The magical money-digging seer stone that facilitated the translation of "the most perfect book on earth." The revelation that eternal marriage (polygamy") was required to get to the highest degree of heaven. That this priesthood withheld from the blacks was required to perform the ordinances to get us all into heaven...

How do we separate all that?

I'll make you a deal: you forget yours, and I'll forget mine. You stop promoting the first vision (especially the one you like to talk about), the claim of "the only true church on earth," the claim that the Book of Mormon is a true history of the America's for 1000 years, etc. -- and start teaching ONLY love, service, compassion, respect of differences, repentence, forgiveness, sekf-worth....

And I'll stop talking about the "bad parts" of your past too.

Deal?

How do you suppose this "deal" will work in improving relations between members and former members? Or has your former intent become so much smoke--not unlike your Church and marital covenants?

Far be it from me to deny you the "bad" LDS history. Clearly, it is of extreme importance to you, and likely the very justification for your apparent scorn for the Church and your sense of moral superiority. Without those things what else do you have to define yourself as a former member?

So, no deal. I wouldn't think to rob you of your precious.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

wenglund wrote:

BishopRic wrote:On another thread, it was suggested that in order to move forward, we should forget about the bad parts of Mormon history. You know, exclusion of blacks from the priesthood, polygamy, MMM, "curing homosexuality," etc..

Start with a clean slate. We all make mistakes. Sounds good, in the spirit of repentence, forgiveness and love -- right?

Here's the problem I have with it. It is this same history that created the essence of the church! The magical money-digging seer stone that facilitated the translation of "the most perfect book on earth." The revelation that eternal marriage (polygamy") was required to get to the highest degree of heaven. That this priesthood withheld from the blacks was required to perform the ordinances to get us all into heaven...

How do we separate all that?

I'll make you a deal: you forget yours, and I'll forget mine. You stop promoting the first vision (especially the one you like to talk about), the claim of "the only true church on earth," the claim that the Book of Mormon is a true history of the America's for 1000 years, etc. -- and start teaching ONLY love, service, compassion, respect of differences, repentence, forgiveness, sekf-worth....

And I'll stop talking about the "bad parts" of your past too.

Deal?

How do you suppose this "deal" will work in improving relations between members and former members? Or has your former intent become so much smoke--not unlike your Church and marital covenants?

Far be it from me to deny you the "bad" LDS history. Clearly, it is of extreme importance to you, and likely the very justification for your apparent scorn for the Church and your sense of moral superiority. Without those things what else do you have to define yourself as a former member?

So, no deal. I wouldn't think to rob you of your precious.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

From he who scorns judgment...

Whatever.

BishopRic wrote:

wenglund wrote:

BishopRic wrote:On another thread, it was suggested that in order to move forward, we should forget about the bad parts of Mormon history. You know, exclusion of blacks from the priesthood, polygamy, MMM, "curing homosexuality," etc..

Start with a clean slate. We all make mistakes. Sounds good, in the spirit of repentence, forgiveness and love -- right?

Here's the problem I have with it. It is this same history that created the essence of the church! The magical money-digging seer stone that facilitated the translation of "the most perfect book on earth." The revelation that eternal marriage (polygamy") was required to get to the highest degree of heaven. That this priesthood withheld from the blacks was required to perform the ordinances to get us all into heaven...

How do we separate all that?

I'll make you a deal: you forget yours, and I'll forget mine. You stop promoting the first vision (especially the one you like to talk about), the claim of "the only true church on earth," the claim that the Book of Mormon is a true history of the America's for 1000 years, etc. -- and start teaching ONLY love, service, compassion, respect of differences, repentence, forgiveness, sekf-worth....

And I'll stop talking about the "bad parts" of your past too.

Deal?

How do you suppose this "deal" will work in improving relations between members and former members? Or has your former intent become so much smoke--not unlike your Church and marital covenants?

Far be it from me to deny you the "bad" LDS history. Clearly, it is of extreme importance to you, and likely the very justification for your apparent scorn for the Church and your sense of moral superiority. Without those things what else do you have to define yourself as a former member?

So, no deal. I wouldn't think to rob you of your precious.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

From he who scorns judgment...

Whatever.

Notice how wade tries to sound all king-jamesish in his declarations?

No, no, no, BishopRic. :)

Wade doesn't like other people passing judgment. He likes to do it himself. :)

Wade, you been to a Hooters lately? I'm thinking that you need to do so or else I'm going to assume you're still stereotypical and gossipy... just sayin' you might wanna get on that. Soon.