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I believe that ten out of ten non-LDS child psychiatrist or psychologist would say this is child abuse and to repeat it to another child or children/teenagers at a fireside is child abuse.

a father is sending his son on a mission. at the train station he says that he would rather see his son come home dead than to lose his virtue (have sex) on a mission.

This story is repeated often in the Utah church. Loving parents would rather see their child dead than have sex prior to marriage.

The burden on the teenager can be overwhelming> for example - a well know presidential candidate had a close love one who died from an illegal abortion. In her mind, she must of thought that it was better to take the life of her unborn child and stand outside the temple smiling for pictures that to have the child and a wedding outside of the church. These mind games, as you see, have consequences.

tumult wrote:I believe that ten out of ten non-LDS child psychiatrist or psychologist would say this is child abuse and to repeat it to another child or children/teenagers at a fireside is child abuse.

a father is sending his son on a mission. at the train station he says that he would rather see his son come home dead than to lose his virtue (have sex) on a mission.

This story is repeated often in the Utah church. Loving parents would rather see their child dead than have sex prior to marriage.

The burden on the teenager can be overwhelming> for example - a well know presidential candidate had a close love one who died from an illegal abortion. In her mind, she must've thought that it was better to take the life of her unborn child and stand outside the temple smiling for pictures that to have the child and a wedding outside of the church. These mind games, as you see, have consequences.

What Church authority made the quote about coming home dead rather than having sex on a mission?

rcrocket wrote:

tumult wrote:I believe that ten out of ten non-LDS child psychiatrist or psychologist would say this is child abuse and to repeat it to another child or children/teenagers at a fireside is child abuse.

a father is sending his son on a mission. at the train station he says that he would rather see his son come home dead than to lose his virtue (have sex) on a mission.

This story is repeated often in the Utah church. Loving parents would rather see their child dead than have sex prior to marriage.

The burden on the teenager can be overwhelming> for example - a well know presidential candidate had a close love one who died from an illegal abortion. In her mind, she must've thought that it was better to take the life of her unborn child and stand outside the temple smiling for pictures that to have the child and a wedding outside of the church. These mind games, as you see, have consequences.

What Church authority made the quote about coming home dead rather than having sex on a mission?

Bruce R. McConkie.

It's just a twist on Mormon Doctrine, Second Edition, page 124:

"Better dead clean, than alive unclean. Many is the faithful Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction, 'I would rather have you come back home in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it' "

Former LDS President Heber J. Grant said it this way, "There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or daughter than to have him or her lose his or her chastity -- realizing that chastity is of more value than anything else in all the world."

The Mormon church has a long and sordid history of institutionalized abuse that continues to this day. From sexual misconduct covered up by priesthood holders to emotionally devasted children who are told they're better off dead than being raped and living through the ordeal. I cannot believe members of this cult continue to aid and abet by supporting secretive interviews, non-enforcement of polygamous cults within their communities, continuing the teaching of polygamy as an eternal principle, etc. etc...

The bottom line is it's a venal organization dressed up with a smiling face, white shirt, and tie. What a shame.

antishock8 wrote:The Mormon church has a long and sordid history of institutionalized abuse that continues to this day. From sexual misconduct covered up by priesthood holders to emotionally devasted children who are told they're better off dead than being raped and living through the ordeal. I cannot believe members of this cult continue to aid and abet by supporting secretive interviews, non-enforcement of polygamous cults within their communities, continuing the teaching of polygamy as an eternal principle, etc. etc...

The bottom line is it's a venal organization dressed up with a smiling face, white shirt, and tie. What a shame.

How are the quotes above about kids coming home from missions child abuse? I assume the kids are adults?

As to kids, morality is an important principle to more than Mormons. EVs, Muslims, and others hold morality in high esteem. I know the denizens of this board would think nothing about surrendering previous covenants for immoral behavior, but Mormons don' t have the corner on ethics in sexual relations.

rcrocket wrote:

antishock8 wrote:The Mormon church has a long and sordid history of institutionalized abuse that continues to this day. From sexual misconduct covered up by priesthood holders to emotionally devasted children who are told they're better off dead than being raped and living through the ordeal. I cannot believe members of this cult continue to aid and abet by supporting secretive interviews, non-enforcement of polygamous cults within their communities, continuing the teaching of polygamy as an eternal principle, etc. etc...

The bottom line is it's a venal organization dressed up with a smiling face, white shirt, and tie. What a shame.

How are the quotes above about kids coming home from missions child abuse? I assume the kids are adults?

Are you admitting that someone in LDS leadership actually made the quotes?

I'd argue the point that it's when the quotes are repeated in the presence of younger children that it constitutes emotional and spiritual abuse. If it ever encourages physical violence or death perpetrated on children then it is also responsible for that.

it was Marion G. Romney - I belive he was putting his son on a train when he was going to Austrailia.

rcrocket wrote:

tumult wrote:I believe that ten out of ten non-LDS child psychiatrist or psychologist would say this is child abuse and to repeat it to another child or children/teenagers at a fireside is child abuse.

a father is sending his son on a mission. at the train station he says that he would rather see his son come home dead than to lose his virtue (have sex) on a mission.

This story is repeated often in the Utah church. Loving parents would rather see their child dead than have sex prior to marriage.

The burden on the teenager can be overwhelming> for example - a well know presidential candidate had a close love one who died from an illegal abortion. In her mind, she must've thought that it was better to take the life of her unborn child and stand outside the temple smiling for pictures that to have the child and a wedding outside of the church. These mind games, as you see, have consequences.

What Church authority made the quote about coming home dead rather than having sex on a mission?

Marion G Romney told this story and said his dad told him this. Elder Bednar repeated it as a BYUI devotional while president of the University. Are you really pretending that this was not said many times? I heard Romney give the talk when I was a teen listening to conference.

How are the quotes above about kids coming home from missions child abuse? I assume the kids are adults?

As to kids, morality is an important principle to more than Mormons. EVs, Muslims, and others hold morality in high esteem. I know the denizens of this board would think nothing about surrendering previous covenants for immoral behavior, but Mormons don' t have the corner on ethics in sexual relations.

With this I agree. But I think the Mormon Church at times past and even currently do not teach such morality is a good and proper way. Comments like the one being discussed here, over emphasis on the idea that it is a sin next to murder, the idea that one is always tainted after losing their virginity, and so on all produce a heavy handed control feature as well as long term guilt that is not really proper in light of the atonement. I think EVs have a healthier approach. When they repent they really believe they are new creatures. Mormons on the other hand often carry the millstone of guilt, especially in the area of sex sin, for a long long time. I think we can do better than heavy handed teachings like this one.

Jason Bourne wrote:

How are the quotes above about kids coming home from missions child abuse? I assume the kids are adults?

As to kids, morality is an important principle to more than Mormons. EVs, Muslims, and others hold morality in high esteem. I know the denizens of this board would think nothing about surrendering previous covenants for immoral behavior, but Mormons don' t have the corner on ethics in sexual relations.

With this I agree. But I think the Mormon Church at times past and even currently do not teach such morality is a good and proper way. Comments like the one being discussed here, over emphasis on the idea that it is a sin next to murder, the idea that one is always tainted after losing their virginity, and so on all produce a heavy handed control feature as well as long term guilt that is not really proper in light of the atonement. I think EVs have a healthier approach. When they repent they really believe they are new creatures. Mormons on the other hand often carry the millstone of guilt, especially in the area of sex sin, for a long long time. I think we can do better than heavy handed teachings like this one.

I agree that we can all do better in the Church regarding this issue.

I find the quotes regarding "better dead than unchaste" to be unfortunate. I've heard them (albeit very rarely.) I believe MGR, SWK, HJG are the three I am familiar with. None to my knowledge made this a theme of their ministry by any stretch of the imagination, fortunately.