DiscussMormonism.com

I was watching CNN last night and watched one woman try to defend polygamy. Her main topic was that it wasn't fair to be separated from her children. I could sympathize with that much becuase I'm not sure that all those women are dangerous to their children. I even gave her the benefit of the doubt until I heard her claim that:

They are being persecuted just like the Nazis persecuted Jews--they were basically being drivin into concentration camps. Sorry, but I just don't see how they're even close as the FLDS are absolutely NOT in danger of life and limb in Texas. Nobody is sending them to gas chambers. How increadibly insulting to the Jews especially when she claimed she studied history and knew what happened to the Jews.

They demand the right for freedom, but it turns out this particular lady tattled on a sister wife when she was gathering her kids and tried to leave. Why, this other woman asked, could she be hypocritical enough to demand freedom of choice in one case but not allow it for others?

The kids have a wonderful environment--they didn't see guns until law enforcement came and told them to go on busses or they'd never see their families again. I might grant that as a positive, but last I checked Mormonism never had a problem with guns. I'm sure they've heard of Porter Rockwell.


Was early LDS polygamy this way too? Did we also make embarassing or hypocritical claims? Didn't some early LDS women also defend polygamy? Do they defend out of religious devotion or because some women (the first wives) often run the show by manipulating the husband and thus controlling the other women (this is what a former FLDS woman claimed on CNN)?

asbestosman wrote:I was watching CNN last night and watched one woman try to defend polygamy. Her main topic was that it wasn't fair to be separated from her children. I could sympathize with that much becuase I'm not sure that all those women are dangerous to their children. I even gave her the benefit of the doubt until I heard her claim that:

They are being persecuted just like the Nazis persecuted Jews--they were basically being drivin into concentration camps. Sorry, but I just don't they're even close as the FLDS are not in danger of life and limb in Texas. Nobody is sending them to gas chambers. How increadibly insulting to the Jews especially when she claimed she studied history and knew what happened to the Jews.

They demand the right for freedom, but it turns out this particular lady tattled on a sister wife when she was gathering her kids and tried to leave. Why, this other woman asked, could she be hypocritical enough to demand freedom of choice in one case but not allow it for others?

The kids have a wonderful environment--they didn't see guns until law enforcement came and told them to go on busses or they'd never see their families again. I might grant that as a positive, but last I checked Mormonism never had a problem with guns. I'm sure they've heard of Porter Rockwell.


Was early LDS polygamy this way too? Did we also make embarassing or hypocritical claims? Didn't some early LDS women also defend polygamy? Do they defend out of religious devotion or because some women (the first wives) often run the show by manipulating the husband and thus controlling the other women (this is what a former FLDS woman claimed on CNN)?

My great-great grandmother defended polygamy and she was polygamous. From what I can tell she liked her sister-wife (she helped choose her) and believed it was a commandment from God and a blessing to them all.

asbestosman wrote:I was watching CNN last night and watched one woman try to defend polygamy. Her main topic was that it wasn't fair to be separated from her children. I could sympathize with that much becuase I'm not sure that all those women are dangerous to their children. I even gave her the benefit of the doubt until I heard her claim that:

They are being persecuted just like the Nazis persecuted Jews--they were basically being drivin into concentration camps. Sorry, but I just don't they're even close as the FLDS are not in danger of life and limb in Texas. Nobody is sending them to gas chambers. How increadibly insulting to the Jews especially when she claimed she studied history and knew what happened to the Jews.

They demand the right for freedom, but it turns out this particular lady tattled on a sister wife when she was gathering her kids and tried to leave. Why, this other woman asked, could she be hypocritical enough to demand freedom of choice in one case but not allow it for others?

The kids have a wonderful environment--they didn't see guns until law enforcement came and told them to go on busses or they'd never see their families again. I might grant that as a positive, but last I checked Mormonism never had a problem with guns. I'm sure they've heard of Porter Rockwell.


Was early LDS polygamy this way too? Did we also make embarassing or hypocritical claims? Didn't some early LDS women also defend polygamy? Do they defend out of religious devotion or because some women (the first wives) often run the show by manipulating the husband and thus controlling the other women (this is what a former FLDS woman claimed on CNN)?

I heard the same interview, and I had the same thoughts. I was also bothered by an FLDS wife saying, "We haven't broken any laws."

Huh?

Does she mean, except having multiple spouses?

Or does she really literally think they've broken no laws.

I started buying her lines until I heard that, too. And the Jews to the concentration camps stuff? No comparison.

I'm having second thoughts about this thing. Maybe the former FLDS woman wasn't being completely honest. It seems quite an interesting coincidence that the FLDS woman on the interview was a former sister wife of the former FLDS woman who commented. It is entirely possible that I've been played by anti-FLDS sentiment. It's also possible that what was said by the former FLDS woman is true. Either way, I think the comparison with the Jews was terrible. It's conceivable that the FLDS are being persecuted for their religion as the Jews were, but it is inconcevable to me that the FLDS are in danger of life and limb as the Jews were. I don't know anyone who wants to engage in some kind of FLDS genocide. No comparison.


As for what laws they're breaking, I don't think they're guilty of bigamy because they don't apply for legal marriage with the other wives. Hence no bigamy. What they are guilty of is adultery, but that law is a de-facto non-law since it is not enforced. Therefore they are guilty of nothing--unless the second / n-th wives are under 18. In such cases the only way they could be innocent is if they divorce the previous wife, quickly marry the 16-17 year old wife, do their thing, and then divorce before moving on to the next one. Of course, that'd only be necessary if they really do impregnate girls under the age of 18--I'm not sure how common that is. I'm willing to wait for the evidence.

I wish it was easier to see who is telling the truth. Was the bed in the temple really used to consumate marriages in frong of spectators? I don't know (although I have my doubts it was in front of spectators). Have authorities uncovered evidence that such is the case? It's interesting to me to realize how easy it is for me to jump to conclusions based in part on my own prejudices.

I hadn't heard that the marriages were consummated on those beds before spectators, and I rather doubt it. They were supposedly for consummating the marriages, but I will assume it was behind closed doors until, and unless, contrary evidence should appear.

asbestosman wrote:I'm having second thoughts about this thing. Maybe the former FLDS woman wasn't being completely honest. It seems quite an interesting coincidence that the FLDS woman on the interview was a former sister wife of the former FLDS woman who commented. It is entirely possible that I've been played by anti-FLDS sentiment. It's also possible that what was said by the former FLDS woman is true. Either way, I think the comparison with the Jews was terrible. It's conceivable that the FLDS are being persecuted for their religion as the Jews were, but it is inconcevable to me that the FLDS are in danger of life and limb as the Jews were. I don't know anyone who wants to engage in some kind of FLDS genocide. No comparison.


As for what laws they're breaking, I don't think they're guilty of bigamy because they don't apply for legal marriage with the other wives. Hence no bigamy. What they are guilty of is adultery, but that law is a de-facto non-law since it is not enforced. Therefore they are guilty of nothing--unless the second / n-th wives are under 18. In such cases the only way they could be innocent is if they divorce the previous wife, quickly marry the 16-17 year old wife, do their thing, and then divorce before moving on to the next one. Of course, that'd only be necessary if they really do impregnate girls under the age of 18--I'm not sure how common that is. I'm willing to wait for the evidence.

I wish it was easier to see who is telling the truth. Was the bed in the temple really used to consumate marriages in frong of spectators? I don't know (although I have my doubts it was in front of spectators). Have authorities uncovered evidence that such is the case? It's interesting to me to realize how easy it is for me to jump to conclusions based in part on my own prejudices.

What type of evidence do you need?

Young pregnant girls aren't enough?

Dozens of women sharing their experiences after escaping isn't enough?

KNOWING their doctrine and beliefs and teachings isn't enough?

CPS workers being lied to by these women and children isn't enough?

A long history of men raping girls isn't enough?

Moms standing by while their girls are raped isn't enough?

What, you want some video clips?

NO ONE CARES about adults screwing whomever they want. No one. Their alternative sexual practices are insignificant to this investigation. As horrific and abusive as they are, this has nothing to do with the situation.

The problem is girls are being raped.

I don't get why this is so difficult to understand.



~dancer~

Sethbag wrote:I hadn't heard that the marriages were consummated on those beds before spectators, and I rather doubt it. They were supposedly for consummating the marriages, but I will assume it was behind closed doors until, and unless, contrary evidence should appear.

Over on MADB, Juliann Reynolds was the first to post that it was done in front of onlookers while a hymn was being sung. She apparently reported that from something she saw on television.

Is Julie a credible source regarding that? Hard to say. But she went straight to MADB with the report.

asbestosman wrote:As for what laws they're breaking, I don't think they're guilty of bigamy because they don't apply for legal marriage with the other wives.

Sex with a minor?

Hey TRTH... :-)

This post isn't specifically to you but your comment just elicited some thoughts! :-)

Sex with a minor?

Also known as RAPE.

These men are rapists. The moms facilitate/encourage/celebrate the rape.

And, anyone is wondering why there is a problem here?

If the moms didn't want their children taken away, maybe they should have considered not BREAKING THE LAW and allowing their children to be sexually abused?

Just a thought. (sigh)

Think about what a normal woman would do if her children were taken away ... she would totally cooperate and do whatever it took to be with her children. She would not lie and play these deceptive games to protect the men.

If the women were honest and forthright, many of the children would most likely not have been taken away but CPS had no choice under these circumstances.


~dancer~

the road to hana wrote:

asbestosman wrote:As for what laws they're breaking, I don't think they're guilty of bigamy because they don't apply for legal marriage with the other wives.

Sex with a minor?

It's not a crime so long as that minor is legally married. That said, I find it immoral and think it should be illegal.