DiscussMormonism.com

Thanks to this whole FLDS YFZ raid fiasco, I'll bet that Mitt Romney is thanking his lucky stars that he quit the race when he did.

Even if Romney had utterly cleaned house on McCain and had been riding as high as McCain is now, this whole FLDS PR disaster would've utterly and irrevocably torpedoed his campaign many times over, beyond doubt. (Does anyone disagree?)

An FLDS/Romney thing would've made the whole Reverend Wright/Obama thing pale in comparison. Indeed, nobody would've even heard of Reverend Wright had this alternate scenario come to pass.

So, any guesses on how much time and money Romney saved by backing out when he did?

ALSO: If Romney were still running, what % of the MA&Dites would be claiming that the whole FLDS raid was merely a political ploy to get Mitt out of the race?

Sounds like you are saying that God protected His Church while showing that and LDS candidate may yet be quite viable in the future.....lol

I think it's gone a long way to separate the LDS from the FLDS in the minds of most people. You do have a few reactionairies trying to work it the other way, but that's to be expected. I think the more incidents like these, the better the LDS Church in the minds of others.

ALSO: If Romney were still running, what % of the MA&Dites would be claiming that the whole FLDS raid was merely a political ploy to get Mitt out of the race?

It's definitely a ploy right now with laws being bent and broken to get at them. However, I wouldn't be suprised if Romney's campaign got the ball rolling in someone's mind in the first place.

bcspace wrote:It's definitely a ploy right now with laws being bent and broken to get at them. However, I wouldn't be suprised if Romney's campaign got the ball rolling in someone's mind in the first place.

Sounds like someone is unfamiliar with both the law and child abuse case history.

bcspace wrote:
I think it's gone a long way to separate the LDS from the FLDS in the minds of most people. You do have a few reactionairies trying to work it the other way, but that's to be expected. I think the more incidents like these, the better the LDS Church in the minds of others.

I humbly disagree. I think it will accomplish the precise opposite. By and large, people associate Mormonism (to the extent they even think of Mormonism) with polygamy. The FLDS fiasco will do nothing but cement this association in deeper.

Joseph Smith's brilliant plan to get into the bloomers of his comely acolytes is the gift that keeps on giving for Mormon Inc. no matter how desperately Mormon Inc. tries to run away from it.

It's definitely a ploy right now with laws being bent and broken to get at them. However, I wouldn't be suprised if Romney's campaign got the ball rolling in someone's mind in the first place.

Sounds like someone is unfamiliar with both the law and child abuse case history.

Funny thing about that is the ACLU seems to agree with me about the legality of the situation. Of course as you know, the ACLU is only as good as it's agreement with your own opinions......

I humbly disagree. I think it will accomplish the precise opposite. By and large, people associate Mormonism (to the extent they even think of Mormonism) with polygamy. The FLDS fiasco will do nothing but cement this association in deeper.

It is true that in the back of many minds is the association of Mormons with plural marriage. However, the media, by and large is separating out the FLDS from the LDS and most people listen when the difference is explained. I'd be more worried if there weren't any incidences like this from time to time.

Joseph Smith's brilliant plan to get into the bloomers of his comely acolytes is the gift that keeps on giving for Mormon Inc. no matter how desperately Mormon Inc. tries to run away from it.

It's your inaccurate portrayals that adds to our membership daily. There are about 30-40 convert baptisms a year in our Stake and most seem to be connected to antiMormonism in some way.

bcspace wrote:Sounds like you are saying that God protected His Church while showing that and LDS candidate may yet be quite viable in the future.....lol

I think it's gone a long way to separate the LDS from the FLDS in the minds of most people. You do have a few reactionairies trying to work it the other way, but that's to be expected. I think the more incidents like these, the better the LDS Church in the minds of others.

The latest statistics suggest otherwise.

http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/2008/04/american_views_of_religious_gr.php

The latest statistics suggest otherwise.

http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science ... ous_gr.php

How so?

I'm not sure how much money Mitt saved but I think he, and the LDS church are REALLY glad events unfolded as they did.

I'm not sure where you live BC but my observation is that in the minds of the vast majority of people, the mantra journalists are required to state in their reports has done nothing to really separate the groups. It has done the opposite in some ways. For example, folks are recognizing garments, secret temple ceremonies, the Book of Mormon, pictures of Joseph Smith on the walls of FLDS homes, etc. etc. It forms a concrete connection regardless of the wish for it to be otherwise.

Mainstream Mormons may not dress the same or have the same hairstyles but their fundamental beliefs are the same. The fact that LDS folks do not currently openly practice polygamy (which of course could be debated because there most definitely are LDS men sealed to multiple women who are alive and well on the earth), doesn't mean a lot to non-members.

The bottom line, both are Mormons, followers of Joseph Smith, believers in the Book of Mormon, believers in polygamy, have prophets, believe they are the one and only true church upon the earth, believe they have the true priesthood of god, etc. etc; the LDS church may have progressed a tad bit but the FLDS reflect the true teachings of Joseph Smith more so than the modern LDS church.

Your stake has forty baptism a year? That must be a record in the church.

In the last ten years, in two wards I know of only four convert baptism (in the wards). Three are totally inactive, two have had their names removed (If I recall correctly).

A few years ago, in my last ward, we had a combined multi-ward meeting with half our stake. During the meeting, the SP asked all those who have been converted in the last ten years to stand (this included several wards). Ten people stood. Ten people in ten years. I personally know of at least ten people in my previous ward who have either had their names removed, have left the church or are no longer believers.

Both my past and current stakes have eliminated at least one ward in the last five years.

I just can't see this FLDS thing being good for the church.

~dancer~

I'm not sure where you live BC but my observation is that in the minds of the vast majority of people, the mantra journalists are required to state in their reports has done nothing to really separate the groups. It has done the opposite in some ways. For example, folks are recognizing garments, secret temple ceremonies, the Book of Mormon, pictures of Joseph Smith on the walls of FLDS homes, etc. etc. It forms a concrete connection regardless of the wish for it to be otherwise.

Mainstream Mormons may not dress the same or have the same hairstyles but their fundamental beliefs are the same. The fact that LDS folks do not currently openly practice polygamy (which of course could be debated because there most definitely are LDS men sealed to multiple women who are alive and well on the earth), doesn't mean a lot to non-members.

The bottom line, both are Mormons, followers of Joseph Smith, believers in the Book of Mormon, believers in polygamy, have prophets, believe they are the one and only true church upon the earth, believe they have the true priesthood of god, etc. etc; the LDS church may have progressed a tad bit but the FLDS reflect the true teachings of Joseph Smith more so than the modern LDS church.

Yes, there is some concentration on the similarities, but that only brings the differences into sharp relief. It's like the parable of the sower. Some stop growing and others grow apace. Without incidences like this, there would be no tipping point where people actually take stands for or against. No tipping point, no converts and no opposers either. With tipping point you have both converts and opposers. Opposition in all things. That's where growth and progress comes from.

Anti/counter Mormonism generates much curiosity about the Church. But they make too many mistakes, tell too many lies, and make too many unsupported or outrageous claims.

Your stake has forty baptism a year? That must be a record in the church.

In the last ten years, in two wards I know of only four convert baptism (in the wards). Three are totally inactive, two have had their names removed (If I recall correctly).

A few years ago, in my last ward, we had a combined multi-ward meeting with half our stake. During the meeting, the SP asked all those who have been converted in the last ten years to stand (this included several wards). Ten people stood. Ten people in ten years. I personally know of at least ten people in my previous ward who have either had their names removed, have left the church or are no longer believers.

Both my past and current stakes have eliminated at least one ward in the last five years.

We live where some antiMormon groups are quite active. Sure they make enemies for us, but they also drive others into the Church. It's been down somewhat compared to the late 90's, but all churches seem to be experiencing this. Our figures used to be 50-60.

But this is why I can appreciate the works being done on this board. Keep up the good work Harmony, you are only fulfilling your role outlined in the parable of the sower.

Trinity wrote:The latest statistics suggest otherwise.

http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/2008/04/american_views_of_religious_gr.php

I'm pleasantly surprised--I thought the Jews were much more hated than this indicates.

As for LDS, I guess we're at least ahead of atheist.