DiscussMormonism.com

Something that has always fascinated me as a problem in Church history is Polyandry, and the doctrine of "spiritual marriage" and the claims by critics that this and related practices were nothing but a cover for Joseph's licentious libido, and hence, the moral delegitimization's of the Prophet of the Restoration.

Bob proposed the following as a topic for a thorough airing of the relevant facts or evidence, among a larger list, to the degree such can be ascertained:

Did Joseph Smith marry other men's wives, and if so, why?

Let's have someone come to the table who believes they have conclusive logical argument or documentary evidence supporting the critic's views of this matter and flesh it out thoroughly with Bob here, as Scratch, apparently, will not.

I'm inviting anyone who would like to go toe to toe with Bob on this issue, as he seems to be confident in his ability to hold his own here on these historical issues, and appears to be well read and educated on the subjects at hand.

My one caveat would be that this be a substantive, civil, critical debate focusing on evidence and detailed argument, and that anyone who feels that responses of the form "such and such is the case, end of story" or dismisses Pro-Church arguments by a poo pooing of the issue without an an intellectually substantive body of argument or facts, recuse themselves from this thread at the outset.

So, who dares enter the arena of ideas here?


Those of us about to rock, we salute you (BANG!!!)

Did Joseph Smith marry other men's wives?

Is this even debated? Even the LDS church admits Joseph Smith "married" other men's wives. (See LDS.org).

and if so, why?

What is there to debate about this?

Either God told Joseph Smith to take the wives of men for himself or Joseph Smith made it up.

Unless Bob can prove God even exists there is nothing much to debate on this topic is there?

What specifically are you wanting to see debated or discussed?

:-)

~dancer~

Is this even debated? Even the LDS church admits Joseph Smith "married" other men's wives. (See LDS.org).

Joseph was apparantly sealed to other men's wives in this life, but this does not imply "marriage' in any normative sense.

What is there to debate about this?

Just the above.

Unless Bob can prove God even exists there is nothing much to debate on this topic is there?

That's something to discuss and debate, not prove. I guess you've caught the Dawkins Hemorrhagic Fever
as well eh?

Must all these discussion stay locked at this facile level?

Coggins7 wrote:

Is this even debated? Even the LDS church admits Joseph Smith "married" other men's wives. (See LDS.org).

Joseph was apparantly sealed to other men's wives in this life, but this does not imply "marriage' in any normative sense.

What exactly do you consider to be the "normative sense?"

Joseph was apparantly sealed to other men's wives in this life, but this does not imply "marriage' in any normative sense.

Loren, even the LDS church openly acknowledges that Joseph Smith was "married" to other men's wives. Read their official website. The wives of other men are listed as official wives of Joseph Smith. He "married" them.

Are you really wanting to debate if Joseph Smith had sex with these wives or something?

Again, I don't think this is not really up for debate unless someone is from the Community of Christ and denies all polygamy/polyandry.

I don't like the fact that so many of these topics end up as a debate whether God exists or not, but when someone claims the reason for a particular behavior is because "God said," it is difficult to discuss much else.

:-(

~dancer~

What does it matter?

With everyone lining up at Dr. Bushman's mo'noculation clinic, the only thing that matters is him bringing Christ back to earth and everything else is acceptable losses for that cause.

Smith could have opened a teen brothel and sold barbecued puppies on a stick, and staunch internet Mormons would not care.

What exactly do you consider to be the "normative sense?"

Living with them in a household and engaging in sexual relations with them.

Are you really wanting to debate if Joseph Smith had sex with these wives or something?

Again, I don't think this is not really up for debate...

Oh isn't it?

Coggins7 wrote:

What exactly do you consider to be the "normative sense?"

Living with them in a household and engaging in sexual relations with them.

What is the purpose of "plural marriage" if not to have those women who are "sealed" to the man be "wives?" If they are not wives, why are they not called "wards" instead, or adoptive children, or "nieces." Even the LDS Church regards those women as "wives," whether in this world or the next.

What is the point of sealing those particular women up to Joseph Smith, if not to have them be "wives?"

Smith could have opened a teen brothel and sold barbecued puppies on a stick, and staunch internet Mormons would not care.

Our Ward is seriously considering precisely this as a fund raising venture. The puppies would be barbecued on the remains of the crosses we burned while while naked teens cavorted in the fields to the tune of "We Thank Thee Oh God for A Prophet".

I've put out feelers to Hef and Flynt for some initial seed capital...