DiscussMormonism.com

But, it's not your problem, really.

Consider:

Joseph Smith's lies regarding the practice of polygamy? They were justified or they can be otherwise rationalized away.

Book of Abraham? Missing scroll.

Indians as the progenitors of Amerindians? LGT: we never expect to find conclusive DNA evidence of them; they only occupied a very small region and soon interbred into the equivalent of genetic extinction. Lamanites are among the ancestors.

Joseph Smith's belief in HGT? Evidence that he was only a translator.

Polygamy? An angel commanded it, or else.

Marrying other men's wives? Dynastic.

KSSABC? Someone embezzled money and ruined the "bank."

Zelph? No proof Joseph Smith ever actually believed this.

Kinderhook plates? Joseph Smith never really attempted a translation.

JST? We don't use it.

BY and the Danites? Just talk.

Masonry in the Temple ceremony? Restoration.

Book of Mormon copyright to be sold in Canada? Some revelations are from the Devil.

Multiple FV accounts? They can be harmonized.

Horses? Tapirs.

Wheeled vehicles? Toys.

HGT? LGT.

North-south? Skew it.

Swords? Macuahuitl.

-------------------------------

No, I don't want to hear encouraging lectures from ex-Mo atheists about how I should abandon my Christian faith and join the "real" world.

But, as an outsider to Mormonism who has observed the LDS penchant for rationalizing away inconvenient facts in order to retain a testimony of Mormonism's truthfulness, I've got to say that Mormonism--insofar as it is believed by its well-intentioned adherents--is detrimental to belief in the supernatural.

If Mormons can be so manifestly, yet sincerely, wrong (in my opinion), what hope do other believers in the supernatural have?

And, no, this really isn't intended as a salvo against my (relative few) LDS friends--here, there, and elsewhere.

It's just an issue I'm attempting to deal with as it relates to my own faith tradition.

I'm rambling, probably.

Chris

Perhaps this is why a significant number of exmormons become atheists in the first place. Once we step outside the circle, and are able to fully see how our belief was so disconnected to reality, then all belief in the supernatural becomes suspect. We believed so strongly, and we were so wrong. Everything is now under the skeptical microscope, because we learned the most painful lesson of humility of all - we were completely wrong about our most cherished belief.

Not to mention, growing up in Mormonism you are taught how wrong all the other religions are. It'a a major theme of growing up in Mormonism. All other relegions are rediculous.

cksalmon wrote:But, it's not your problem, really.

Consider:

Joseph Smith's lies regarding the practice of polygamy? They were justified or they can be otherwise rationalized away.

Book of Abraham? Missing scroll.

Indians as the progenitors of Amerindians? LGT: we never expect to find conclusive DNA evidence of them; they only occupied a very small region and soon interbred into the equivalent of genetic extinction. Lamanites are among the ancestors.

Joseph Smith's belief in HGT? Evidence that he was only a translator.

Polygamy? An angel commanded it, or else.

Marrying other men's wives? Dynastic.

KSSABC? Someone embezzled money and ruined the "bank."

Zelph? No proof Joseph Smith ever actually believed this.

Kinderhook plates? Joseph Smith never really attempted a translation.

JST? We don't use it.

BY and the Danites? Just talk.

Masonry in the Temple ceremony? Restoration.

Book of Mormon copyright to be sold in Canada? Some revelations are from the Devil.

Multiple FV accounts? They can be harmonized.

Horses? Tapirs.

Wheeled vehicles? Toys.

HGT? LGT.

North-south? Skew it.

Swords? Macuahuitl.

-------------------------------

No, I don't want to hear encouraging lectures from ex-Mo atheists about how I should abandon my Christian faith and join the "real" world.

But, as an outsider to Mormonism who has observed the LDS penchant for rationalizing away inconvenient facts in order to retain a testimony of Mormonism's truthfulness, I've got to say that Mormonism--insofar as it is believed by its well-intentioned adherents--is detrimental to belief in the supernatural.

If Mormons can be so manifestly, yet sincerely, wrong (in my opinion), what hope do other believers in the supernatural have?

And, no, this really isn't intended as a salvo against my (relative few) LDS friends--here, there, and elsewhere.

It's just an issue I'm attempting to deal with as it relates to my own faith tradition.

I'm rambling, probably.

Chris

Oh. My. Gosh. I love this post.

May I plagiarize it?

;-)

Jersey Girl wrote:

cksalmon wrote:But, it's not your problem, really.

Consider:

Joseph Smith's lies regarding the practice of polygamy? They were justified or they can be otherwise rationalized away.

Book of Abraham? Missing scroll.

Indians as the progenitors of Amerindians? LGT: we never expect to find conclusive DNA evidence of them; they only occupied a very small region and soon interbred into the equivalent of genetic extinction. Lamanites are among the ancestors.

Joseph Smith's belief in HGT? Evidence that he was only a translator.

Polygamy? An angel commanded it, or else.

Marrying other men's wives? Dynastic.

KSSABC? Someone embezzled money and ruined the "bank."

Zelph? No proof Joseph Smith ever actually believed this.

Kinderhook plates? Joseph Smith never really attempted a translation.

JST? We don't use it.

BY and the Danites? Just talk.

Masonry in the Temple ceremony? Restoration.

Book of Mormon copyright to be sold in Canada? Some revelations are from the Devil.

Multiple FV accounts? They can be harmonized.

Horses? Tapirs.

Wheeled vehicles? Toys.

HGT? LGT.

North-south? Skew it.

Swords? Macuahuitl.

-------------------------------

No, I don't want to hear encouraging lectures from ex-Mo atheists about how I should abandon my Christian faith and join the "real" world.

But, as an outsider to Mormonism who has observed the LDS penchant for rationalizing away inconvenient facts in order to retain a testimony of Mormonism's truthfulness, I've got to say that Mormonism--insofar as it is believed by its well-intentioned adherents--is detrimental to belief in the supernatural.

If Mormons can be so manifestly, yet sincerely, wrong (in my opinion), what hope do other believers in the supernatural have?

And, no, this really isn't intended as a salvo against my (relative few) LDS friends--here, there, and elsewhere.

It's just an issue I'm attempting to deal with as it relates to my own faith tradition.

I'm rambling, probably.

Chris

Oh. My. Gosh. I love this post.

May I plagiarize it?

;-)

Nothing here hasn't been said a thousand times before. I don't require any attribution.

:|

beastie wrote:Perhaps this is why a significant number of exmormons become atheists in the first place. Once we step outside the circle, and are able to fully see how our belief was so disconnected to reality, then all belief in the supernatural becomes suspect. We believed so strongly, and we were so wrong. Everything is now under the skeptical microscope, because we learned the most painful lesson of humility of all - we were completely wrong about our most cherished belief.

I believe I remember reading somewhere that the majority (I'm using that to mean at least 51%) of ex-Mormons do become either atheistic or agnostic following their deconversion from Mormonism. Don't quote me on that. But, I'm pretty sure I remember coming across that statistic somewhere.

I can't say I blame them, for essentially the reasons you've expressed above--or some version thereof.

Of course, that runs smack into my own religious beliefs, which is another can of worms. (I'm a determinist. But this thread ain't about that.)

It seems to me, personally, that if Mormonism were to become, or was assumed to be, the litmus test of the reality of the supernatural, then we would all be justified in giving it the old heave-ho.

And, yet, believing Mormons strike me as being quite sincere, which is what compelled me to broach the topic in the first place. I, too, after all, like to consider myself sincere in my own beliefs.

?

SatanWasSetUp wrote:Not to mention, growing up in Mormonism you are taught how wrong all the other religions are. It'a a major theme of growing up in Mormonism. All other relegions are ridiculous.

I (as a traditional Christian) don't think I was brought up to believe that all other religions were ridiculous, just misguided. And the adherents thereof in desperate need of conversion.

I just saw what one looked like in a movie recently. Do I understand correctly that the LDS apologists consider that an animal that was said to be a horse could have likley been a tapir?

cksalmon wrote:But, as an outsider to Mormonism who has observed the LDS penchant for rationalizing away inconvenient facts in order to retain a testimony of Mormonism's truthfulness, I've got to say that Mormonism--insofar as it is believed by its well-intentioned adherents--is detrimental to belief in the supernatural.

You mean internet Mormonism is detrimental, because it is intellectual, or pseudo/part-time intellectual. Most day-to-day Mormons don't know what HGT stands for, don't think about the "Book of Abraham" on a daily basis, and have never even heard of "Kinderhook". For the vast majority, the Mormon religion is just as miraculous as naïve Bible-belief.

Still, I love your ramblin list of considered rationalizations. lol

msnobody wrote:I just saw what one looked like in a movie recently. Do I understand correctly that the LDS apologists consider that an animal that was said to be a horse could have likley been a tapir?

Some say it could have referred to a tapir. Tapirs could have been pulled around in carts and eaten whenever necessary, like some idiotic Monty Python skit with mad Scottsmen and cocconuts. Where is Sethbag and his Brian avater when you need him?

I like this picture of a Beliz tapir from wikipedia



I remember at one time seeing a comment there (Wikipedia:Tapir) about Mormon apologists and the possibility that tapirs could have substituted for horses if the Book of Mormon setting was actually Mesoamerica. I think if the Book of Mormon setting was what the Limited Geography Theory claims, then tapirs would have been called pigs. Not horses.