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In the thread Crockett Challenges Scratch to a Debate, Scottie says:

Scottie wrote:If you were to go into a typical Utah County chapel on any given Sunday, how many members would have an inkling of an idea that Joseph Smith used a rock in the hat? Best guess.

If I had to guess, 95% wouldn't know.

If you were to ask these members how they envision the translation process, what do you think their response would be?

I know that as for myself, when I was a typical chapel Mormon, I would have said that Joseph Smith wore the Urim and Thummim like a pair of glasses and with the plates in front of him, studied them and read from it to a scribe. Exactly like the church sanctioned picture shows him.

The church knows EXACTLY how they want to portray Joseph Smith. And reading from a hat does not fit into their image.

Thought experiment

1. Select a small number of LDS teachings - say, 10 or so - some controversial, some not (!)
2. Engage the services of a professional polling organization
3. Have the pollsters solicit (a) from the GAs! and (b) from FARMS the appropriate official teaching/doctrinal statement(s) for each
4. Ask the GAs, FARMS and the ex-LDS/non-orthodox community what they think active members (in good standing) believe about each teaching
5. Conduct polls of active members with regard to the teachings
6. Grade the answers from the polls
7. Present the results to the GAs, FARMS, the ex-LDS/non-orthodox community

Questions

a. How far will the answers in 3. and 4. diverge from each other?
a. How far will the answers in 3a. and 3b. diverge from each other?
c. How far will the answers in 3. and 5. diverge from each other?
d. Which group do you think will have the biggest surprise, when they compare what they think members will say about each teaching with the actual answers? That is, which group (GAs, FARMS, ex-LDS/non-orthodox) has the best grasp of what members actually believe?

Of course, it would be necessary to find an acceptable representative of the ex-LDS/non-orthodox community. I'd go with someone like Richard Packham, or one of our own articulate people on the heterodox side of the board - you (and the rest of us) know who you are.

Anyone have an idea what it would cost to get Gallup, for example, to do this?

This is a great idea, but I don't think the church would go anywhere near it. I remember taking polls from time to time as a BYU student. Maybe someone could come up with a similar poll and have it administered in all freshman Book of Mormon classes at BYU. When I was a freshman at BYU, I hadn't yet encountered any of the controversies. Then again, it might be hard to get members to answer questions that they feel are anti-mormon (i.e. the head in the hat).

silentkid wrote:This is a great idea, but I don't think the church would go anywhere near it. I remember taking polls from time to time as a BYU student. Maybe someone could come up with a similar poll and have it administered in all freshman Book of Mormon classes at BYU. When I was a freshman at BYU, I hadn't yet encountered any of the controversies. Then again, it might be hard to get members to answer questions that they feel are anti-mormon (I.e. the head in the hat).

I'm sure that it would be possible to come up with wording that did not prejudice the members being polled - in fact, that (I expect) is a large part of the expertise that pollsters employ to earn their fee.

Yes, it would have to be something like,

Describe how Joseph Smith translated the plates.
Why were the Saints forced out of Nauvoo?
Who visited Joseph Smith in the sacred grove?
Which prophet sanctioned and began practicing polygamy?
What reason was polygamy practiced?

Scottie wrote:Yes, it would have to be something like,

Describe how Joseph Smith translated the plates.
Why were the Saints forced out of Nauvoo?
Who visited Joseph Smith in the sacred grove?
Which prophet sanctioned and began practicing polygamy?
What reason was polygamy practiced?

I suppose that, ideally, the questions should be multiple-choice, with the "answers" provided by each of "the church"/GAs/Otterson?, apologists, heterodox/ex-mos included in the options. The art would be in choosing the options so that, if possible, they were all inoffensive to active members.

I can understand why "the church" might prefer not to participate, but I bet that "we" could come up with a church option for each question, based on the content of official church documents (class manuals etc). The results could be critiqued by "the church" if they felt that we had misrepresented what the official sources said.

Does anyone here have access to a suitable group of active members who would participate? This, I think, is the real challenge.

Anyway, is the church not in the business of teaching the gospel and perfecting the saints? If so, should it not be vitally interested in how effective it is in carrying out these responsibilities? If we could measure the closeness of members' beliefs to what the church thinks it is teaching, we would be giving the church a valuable set of information. Of course, it would also show how closely member beliefs tracked to apologist views, and how close apologist views were to official teachings.

Actually, does anyone know if the church does measure whether its teaching goals are met? I don't remember ever having pre-tests/post-tests, for example, to determine how much I learned in any church course of study.

Should all involved not be interested? Should we not see apologists spending time and effort to determine how relevant their work is? And the heterodox/ex-mos would likely be interested in seeing if they really understand what members think, as they sometimes say that they do.

A scientific study might give all parties food for thought. When can we start? [wishing once more for smilies - I know that this is all pie in the sky]