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Court rules Texas acted improperly in seizure FLDS children
Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:30 pm
by _bcspace
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700228198,00.html
ELDORADO, Texas — An Austin appeals court has ruled that Texas child welfare authorities acted improperly in removing more than 450 children from the FLDS Church's YFZ Ranch.
The 3rd Court of Appeals ruled on a legal challenge by a group of FLDS mothers seeking to have their children returned to them immediately.
"CPS was not justified in removing these children," said Cynthia Martinez of the Texas Rio Grande Legal Aid Society, which is representing the mothers. "They did not provide any evidence that the children were in danger, and they acted hastily in removing the children."
It is unclear if the children will be returned immediately to the ranch or what impact this will have on ongoing status hearings.
The ruling said that Texas authorities did not carry their burden of proof under state law.
"The evidence adduced at the hearing held April 17-18, 2008, was legally and factually insufficient to support the findings required" for the state to maintain custody of the children, the ruling said. "Consequently, the district court abused its discretion in failing to return" the children.
The ruling directs the district court to vacate the temporary orders granting conservatorship, or custody, of the children to the department.
Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:39 pm
by _Sethbag
Yeah, this will be very interesting to watch play out. If they're ordered to return all of the children, what do you suppose the FLDS are going to do? Get the heck out of Texas, or build a stronger wall around their compound? They were secretive before, and wouldn't talk to anyone, but they've been getting on the news, driving around the state, talking to cameras, etc. since then, trying to get the future child brides/future lost boys/future child abusers back to the compound. Now that they'll probably get them back, do you suppose they're going to just clam up and go all underground again, even more so?
Re: Court rules Texas acted improperly in seizure FLDS child
Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:40 pm
by _The Dude
NOOOOO! The activist judges are at it again. Why can't we get some good "inactivist" judges who sit and listen attentively but make no rulings. That's the kind of conservative court we really need in this country. [/sarcasm]
Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:43 pm
by _bcspace
NOOOOO! The activist judges are at it again. Why can't we get some good "inactivist" judges who sit and listen attentively but make no rulings. That's the kind of conservative court we really need in this country. [/sarcasm]
In this case, the activists were the cps. A conservative court will turn those back every time. But since we don't probably don't have a conservative court anywhere in the land, these FLDS mothers got lucky in this case.
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:10 am
by _Mahonri
No, they did not get lucky. They got a Judge who can read and apply the law.
Texas kidnapped the children because a bunch of uptight Baptists don't like Mormons... FLDS or LDS... doesn't matter.
The baloney about rescuing the girls from dirty old men... why did they take the boys and young children?
The cynical view is that the Democrats put them up to this to make sure Mitt Romney does not enter/re-enter the race for President. The normal population doesn't care about minor differences, to them he is LDS/FLDS... a Polygamist... as all Mormons are. If he decided to get back in the race for whatever reason every other question would be about Polygamy. He could not explain it away, we saw his clear and convincing explanation of Mormonism in his news conference already.
Either way, get these kids back to their parents. Enforce age laws on marriage. Enforce chile molestation laws. Other than that they have their beliefs and are free to practice them.
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:14 am
by _Boaz & Lidia
I am sure the FLDS members are taking this as a sign of god.
How can anyone say it is not?
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:39 am
by _Mercury
Mahonri wrote:No, they did not get lucky. They got a Judge who can read and apply the law.
Texas kidnapped the children because a bunch of uptight Baptists don't like Mormons... FLDS or LDS... doesn't matter.
The baloney about rescuing the girls from dirty old men... why did they take the boys and young children?
The cynical view is that the Democrats put them up to this to make sure Mitt Romney does not enter/re-enter the race for President. The normal population doesn't care about minor differences, to them he is LDS/FLDS... a Polygamist... as all Mormons are. If he decided to get back in the race for whatever reason every other question would be about Polygamy. He could not explain it away, we saw his clear and convincing explanation of Mormonism in his news conference already.
Either way, get these kids back to their parents. Enforce age laws on marriage. Enforce chile molestation laws. Other than that they have their beliefs and are free to practice them.
Systematic child rape is not a constitutional right. I am reminding you because it seems that you are unaware of this. There is no great conspiracy to thwart Romney, he thwarted his own campaign. Plain and simple.
Yes, that's right. A bunch of Texans let the Democrats push them around and forced this situation. Uhhuh. mmhmm. Whats next? Are the Saurians going to, with the help of resurected Nazis, coming to steal our precious bodily fluids?
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:26 am
by _James Clifford Miller
Mahonri wrote:No, they did not get lucky. They got a Judge who can read and apply the law.
Either way, get these kids back to their parents. Enforce age laws on marriage. Enforce chile molestation laws. Other than that they have their beliefs and are free to practice them.
You seem to be under the impression that the Texas FLDS are just like LDS, living in closely-knit, loving family units, just with more wives. THis simply isn't true in the Texas compound. There are no family homes in the compound because Jeffs had moved beyond families in Texas. He preached that the children no longer belonged to their parents, they belonged to the priesthood under his direction and he housed them in those enormous dorms you see in the pictures. Because the family unit was not used in Texas, most of the children there really do not know who their parents are. In addition, starting in 2004, Jeffs took a number of children out of homes in Utah, Arizona, and Canada and moved them -- without their parents -- to Texas. These were between the ages of 2 and 6 because any older than that, Jeffs said, were "contaminated" by the world. So returning these culled children to their families would require moving them out of texas back to their families in other states and countries. While the FLDS hypocrits cried about the trauma of the Texas CPS removing children from their homes, not a tear was shed for the children Jeffs took from their parents to bring to Texas.
James Clifford Miller
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:39 am
by _harmony
James Clifford Miller wrote:Mahonri wrote:No, they did not get lucky. They got a Judge who can read and apply the law.
Either way, get these kids back to their parents. Enforce age laws on marriage. Enforce chile molestation laws. Other than that they have their beliefs and are free to practice them.
You seem to be under the impression that the Texas FLDS are just like LDS, living in closely-knit, loving family units, just with more wives. THis simply isn't true in the Texas compound. There are no family homes in the compound because Jeffs had moved beyond families in Texas. He preached that the children no longer belonged to their parents, they belonged to the priesthood under his direction and he housed them in those enormous dorms you see in the pictures. Because the family unit was not used in Texas, most of the children there really do not know who their parents are. In addition, starting in 2004, Jeffs took a number of children out of homes in Utah, Arizona, and Canada and moved them -- without their parents -- to Texas. These were between the ages of 2 and 6 because any older than that, Jeffs said, were "contaminated" by the world. So returning these culled children to their families would require moving them out of texas back to their families in other states and countries. While the FLDS hypocrits cried about the trauma of the Texas CPS removing children from their homes, not a tear was shed for the children Jeffs took from their parents to bring to Texas.
James Clifford Miller
How do you know this, James?
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:54 am
by _karl61
it should have been on a case by case bases. the thing to do is some how get the kids enrolled in public schools and then do your investigation there. there is nothing that also prevents them from getting court orders to allow wiretaps, taping and other things but it would be very slow but it would go forward.
the one thing you need to understand is that if it is physical abuse or sexual abuse it is a law enforcement issue not cps and should be handled like any other criminal investigation. In california it is illegal for a cps worker to take a child into custody for physical abuse or sexual abuse. It has to be done by law enforment who then just releases the child to the cps person but if a cps person goes to a home and discovers physical abuse or sexual abuse a police officer is brought in a makes the detention along or very likely the arrest of the parent or uncle or neighbor or whoever.