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On another thread, Alter Idem said,

They [posters on MAD] are lazy and want others to spoon feed them information.

I've heard others say similar things.

Isn't one of the purposes of a message board to learn new things? To be able to ask questions?

Bonds chastisement when he asked about the date of a film over on MAD comes to mind. Should Bond be able to post a question where someone probably has the answer immediately available, rather than spending hours trying to find the information himself? If nobody has the information, then no harm done, right?

Do I really need to learn as much as Beastie regarding Mesoamerica in order to discuss the historacy of the Book of Mormon, or should I be able to pick her brain when I have a question (which I've done many times)? Does that make me lazy?

How much independent research is required before we engage on these boards?

Scottie wrote:On another thread, Alter Idem said,

They [posters on MAD] are lazy and want others to spoon feed them information.

I've heard others say similar things.

Isn't one of the purposes of a message board to learn new things? To be able to ask questions?

Bonds chastisement when he asked about the date of a film over on MAD comes to mind. Should Bond be able to post a question where someone probably has the answer immediately available, rather than spending hours trying to find the information himself? If nobody has the information, then no harm done, right?

Do I really need to learn as much as Beastie regarding Mesoamerica in order to discuss the historacy of the Book of Mormon, or should I be able to pick her brain when I have a question (which I've done many times)? Does that make me lazy?

How much independent research is required before we engage on these boards?

NOt only was I chastized, I was banned for the night. And how exactly was I supposed to find that information anyway? Isn't asking the video producers [I'm assuming livy is among them since he spams them all over the net] the most direct way?

As to the main point, sounds like Alter Idem is making the same argument that apologists make about church members who are suprised to find out about weird stuff in LDS history and applying it to basically all people who use message boards {or ask questions looking for information}. They're too lazy to study up on the material which although isn't readily available, can be found if you look hard enough.

But the point is that we're all lazy. That's why we use search engines and wikipedia and so forth. We want to be spoon fed certain information because it saves us time. People aren't going to put tons of time into studying anything unless they are extremely interested [and have nothing better to do] or are being paid [such as people who study in order to get advanced degrees or academics who have the job of boiling down information to feed it to the masses or that guy at Best Buy who knows about computers or TVs so that he can better help customers]. Check that...we're not lazy in most cases, we're just being utilitarian with our time. We want a single piece of information that others may have. We ask a question in the hope that we get an answer that satisfies our question hopefully. Usually we get a variety of answers and have to sort through them to find the one we think is most correct. Heck that's the whole reason we debate and dialogue right? To find the most correct answer or the most nuanced answer to the question?

Well said, Bond. Well said.

Scottie wrote:Well said, Bond. Well said.

I have my moment. :)

Hi Scottie, I'll explain what I meant. I was thinking of an example which sums this problem up. When "Sarah"--the woman who made the calls to authorities regarding the FLDS YFZ ranch was identified, a poster posted her picture and then asked some questions, one of them being if the woman could be a disgruntled former sect member. Now, this was ridiculous because the woman was black. The FLDS are extremely prejudiced against black people, there's no way she was a former member. But when others on the thread explained this--the original poster started demanding documentation to prove the FLDS were prejudiced. To me, this was a perfect example of what has become common place at MADB. in my opinion, this poster should have taken one of two options--either accept what others had told him as fact and move on, or research the subject himself--it wouldn't have been hard to go put in "FLDS racist" in a search engine and found out for himself--instead he got defensive and tried to put the burden of proof on those who already knew the answer.

I can understand asking for references for obscure quotes or information, but I see it as a "tactic" that some use--this calling for references for every bit of information a person tries to present as a way to win the argument. They wear down their opponent or push them into silence, because it's just not worth it to be challenged on every little thing they say.

I think some posters found that it was a successful tactic to use and so they use it. They aren't asking for information because they are interested in learning the truth--they just want "control" over their opponent and they want to intimidate them into not presenting information that supports their side--because it will mean having to defend every single point they try to make--it's too time consuming and futile when the other person's motives are not pure.

I don't know if other posters at MADB have noticed this, but I have, and it's made me think twice about getting into a discussion if certain posters who use this tactic are participating.

I think some posters found that it was a successful tactic to use and so they use it. They aren't asking for information because they are interested in learning the truth--they just want "control" over their opponent and they want to intimidate them into not presenting information that supports their side--because it will mean having to defend every single point they try to make--it's too time consuming and futile when the other person's motives are not pure.

This is one of several reasons I refuse to participate on MAD. I experienced this phenomenon repeatedly in conversations about mesoamerica/Book of Mormon, and it was maddening. Juliann was the absolute worst offender. Her constant demands that I prove even the most basic concepts about ancient Mesoamerica, for no apparent reason other than to tire me out, derailed almost every thread about Mesoamerica I participated on at MAD. The funniest example is when she demanded that I present my OWN theory for which Mesoamerican polities could be considered for Book of Mormon localities when I was demonstrating the serious flaws of Sorenson's proposals.

I finally had enough when I spent literally hours providing detailed information about specific polities, upon Juliann's "request", only to have her completely ignore the information and even have the nerve to suggest I had ignored her "request".

This is very different than posters simply seeking information from people who have studied certain topics. Yes, I think it is a deliberate tactic used to distract and derail. I noticed it being used more by believers, but it's possible some critics may be engaging in it as well and I just didn't notice.

I do hate CFRs. I don't think I've ever answered one. If your opinion is worth reading then mine is good enough a refutation.

Bond...James Bond wrote:I do hate CFRs. I don't think I've ever answered one. If your opinion is worth reading then mine is good enough a refutation.

I do CFRs with two people on this website. It's probably no surprise they're both men that are demeaning to me. I get giddy from knowing they're wrong as I'm the one being called, essentially, ignorant. They'll make a statement and I'll ask them to back it up when I know they're talking outta their ass. Yet, I usually then go ahead and supply the information for them -- and they ignore the information. :)

Evolution is something that is maddening to discuss on the internet 'cause people try this tactic and it's exhausting.

Moniker wrote:

Bond...James Bond wrote:I do hate CFRs. I don't think I've ever answered one. If your opinion is worth reading then mine is good enough a refutation.

I do CFRs with two people on this website. It's probably no surprise they're both men that are demeaning to me. I get giddy from knowing they're wrong as I'm the one being called, essentially, ignorant. They'll make a statement and I'll ask them to back it up when I know they're talking outta their ass. Yet, I usually then go ahead and supply the information for them -- and they ignore the information. :)

Evolution is something that is maddening to discuss on the internet 'cause people try this tactic and it's exhausting.

As long as I know who is right and who is wrong I'm content. Contentment for myself is what I strive for because it's the only thing I can directly influence. Everyone else can eat a fruit pie for all I care.

Scottie wrote: Isn't one of the purposes of a message board to learn new things? To be able to ask questions?

It appears you had a specific thing in mind when you started this thread, but when I read the title, I was thinking it was a more broad topic which is sort of addressed by the questions I quoted.

I think the purpose of message boards is almost as varied as what people think the meaning of life is. How people use them is personal. I don't think there is a singular use.

What's amusing to me is how people tend to get annoyed when others don't use them the way they think they should be used, as though they are an authority on message board purpose or something. As long as people are posting within the parameters established by the board owners, other people reading the board only have themselves to blame for any annoyance they may feel reading the board.

This is the main reason I am critical of "I'm leaving" or "I'm taking a break" posts. They're essentially saying "you don't use the board the way I think you should, so I'm taking my marbles and going home." To that, I think, "Well, good for you. Don't let the 'back' button hit your ass on the way out."