Page 1 of 3

Black Less Valient Was “Folklore”

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:09 pm
by _Infymus
According to the Mormon Cult owned Deseret News:

“In the decades since, Knight and thousands of other black members have joined the faith, with LDS temples now operating in South Africa, Nigeria and Ghana, and another seven temples operating in Brazil, where a large black population has helped propel record church growth in South America.

As a longtime ambassador of sorts for the church, Gray has worked tirelessly to explain his faith and to dispel the continuing folklore about the "premortal valiancy" of black Latter-day Saints to those who still question the reason for the priesthood ban or who hang on to discredited LDS folklore about its origin.”

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700232514,00.html?pg=1

Ok, time to post some Mormon stuff:

Joseph Fielding Smith wrote the following:

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantage. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.... There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits."


Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, pages 66-67

Joseph Smith stated the following:

"For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent, obey the Gospel, and do right from this day forward. . . . Cain and his posterity must wear the mark, which God put upon them; and his white friends may wash the race of Cain with fuller’s soap every day, they cannot wash away God’s mark; The Lamanites, through transgression, became a loathsome, ignorant and filthy people, and were cursed with a skin of darkness … yet, they have the promise, if they will believe, and work righteousness, that not many generations shall pass away before they shall become a white and delightsome people; but it will take some time to accomplish this at best"


The Latter-Day Saints Millennial Star, vol. 14, p. 418

"The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, ...but this inequality is not of man's origin. It is the Lord's doing, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their First Estate [the pre-existence]."


Mormon Doctrine, p. 527 - 528, 1966 edition

"It seems to us that it ought to be possible to work this situation out without causing any feelings on the part of anybody. If the white sisters feel that they may not sit with them or near them, we feel sure that if the colored sisters were discretely approached, they would be happy to sit at one side in the rear or somewhere where they would not wound the sensibilities of the complaining sisters."


Letter June 23, 1942 from First Presidency to Stake President Ezra Taft Benson (yes, THAT Ezra Taft Benson)]

"Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, their intelligence stunted, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.”


- The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157

July 17, 1947 - First Presidency letter states:

"From the days of the Prophet Joseph even until now, it has been the Doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel. Furthermore, your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and White races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now. God's rule for Israel, His Chosen People, has been endogamous. Modern Israel has been similarly directed. We are not unmindful of the fact that there is growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church Doctrine."


I could go on and on and on and on, but why should I, since now, it's all just folklore.

"Those are little flecks of history" said the Hinkster.

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:18 pm
by _Trevor
Imagine the day when the LDS Church is offering this gem:

"The notion that Native Americans were Israelites, or that the Book of Mormon was an actual ancient text, were never doctrines of this Church. Those who hang on to this outdated folklore to attack the Church are in error."

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:08 am
by _cksalmon
It's really ridiculous, isn't it?

Folklore.

The "living prophet" is the escape hatch of the never-surfacing submarine of historically-outmoded Mormon belief.

Chris

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:42 am
by _bcspace
So where are the doctrinal statements that blacks were less valient? The OP didn't list any.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:25 am
by _cksalmon
bcspace wrote:So where are the doctrinal statements that blacks were less valient? The OP didn't list any.


BCS

I think the misunderstanding is that you choose to believe that Mormonism never taught anything that you don't personally believe. And that "doctrine" consists in things that weren't actually taught but that you would have liked to have been. And that your technicalities are sufficient to rescue your faith. I don't think they are. It's a brave game, BC, but at some point, the "doctrinal" approach is going to trip you up. Unless, of course, that you think that Mormon doctrine is an invention of the living prophet.

Happy trails, nonetheless.

Chris

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:31 am
by _bcspace
I think the misunderstanding is that you choose to believe that Mormonism never taught anything that you don't personally believe. And that "doctrine" consists in things that weren't actually taught but that you would have liked to have been. And that your technicalities are sufficient to rescue your faith. I don't think they are.


Actually, I accept the Church's own statements on what is and is not doctrine. Most reasonable and logical people do the same for any church they believe in or criticize.

It's a brave game, BC, but at some point, the "doctrinal" approach is going to trip you up. Unless, of course, that you think that Mormon doctrine is an invention of the living prophet.


I put my money where my mouth is.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:55 am
by _ludwigm
bcspace wrote:
...

Actually, I accept the Church's own statements on what is and is not doctrine.
...
I put my money where my mouth is.


I should see the C+++'s own statements on what is doctrine.

Please!

Many times, You produced us links, where we could read, what is not, what is not important, what is not stressed, what is not taught.
I don't care them, the nots. Show me the principle or principles presented by The C+++.

doctrine:
- a principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
- something taught; a teaching

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:18 am
by _moksha
Did any of us not realize it was folklore at the time we heard it?

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:47 pm
by _Mercury
This revisionist opinion is a pathetic attempt at wishing away the previous plot holes and banal repetition of sad, stupid and bigoted acts contained within the Mormon narrative.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:49 pm
by _Mercury
moksha wrote:Did any of us not realize it was folklore at the time we heard it?


and thus would break the definition of folklore. The funny thing is that in 2000, the feeling was that there was no real way to explain the racist actions of the church.