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We're told that Christ suffered in the Garden, bled from every pore, was whipped, and was crucified whereupon he died. This suffereing was supposedly so great that he paid the debt for billions of people's sins (to Justice, whoever that is).

How did what he did wipe away the sins of billions of people? It doesn't seem like much punishment, for the sins (some of which are really bad) of everyone who was ever born. And who is Justice, that she can make that kind of claim on God himself?

harmony wrote:We're told that Christ suffered in the Garden, bled from every pore, was whipped, and was crucified whereupon he died. This suffereing was supposedly so great that he paid the debt for billions of people's sins (to Justice, whoever that is).

How did what he did wipe away the sins of billions of people? It doesn't seem like much punishment, for the sins (some of which are really bad) of everyone who was ever born. And who is Justice, that she can make that kind of claim on God himself?

A question that will probably take a lifetime of prayer, study, and meditation to answer. Good luck. Tell us how it goes.

How did what he did wipe away the sins of billions of people?

By changing the Hubble Constant.

harmony wrote:We're told that Christ suffered in the Garden, bled from every pore, was whipped, and was crucified whereupon he died. This suffereing was supposedly so great that he paid the debt for billions of people's sins (to Justice, whoever that is).

How did what he did wipe away the sins of billions of people? It doesn't seem like much punishment, for the sins (some of which are really bad) of everyone who was ever born. And who is Justice, that she can make that kind of claim on God himself?

Nehors point that we do not understand the whole makes sense to me. However I do have glimpses which at least help me. I think the atonmenat is a foundation from which we can all share the process of forgiving others. the renewal of life based on forgiveness and love is more to the point than a specific amount of suffering. The payment idea (Anselm) is based upon Jesus being divine and our creator. If that is the case he is the one offended so that the payment is by him to him and he can determine the amount appropriate.(he is the lady justice making the demand) It is also connected to the idea that his suffering as divine has infinite value. (at least relative to sin) That last comment makes somewhat less sense to me than the other reasons preceeeding it but I have not completed Nehors project of learning.

harmony wrote:We're told that Christ suffered in the Garden, bled from every pore, was whipped, and was crucified whereupon he died. This suffereing was supposedly so great that he paid the debt for billions of people's sins (to Justice, whoever that is).

How did what he did wipe away the sins of billions of people? It doesn't seem like much punishment, for the sins (some of which are really bad) of everyone who was ever born. And who is Justice, that she can make that kind of claim on God himself?

Ah, critical-thinking. Shame on You Harmony!! ;-))) I think those questions could appropriately preface MDB... The more they are exposed to the light of intelligence the more absurd they show such beliefs to be.

Lord-of-the Flies; Lord-of-the-Rings; Harry Potter; most Si-Fi stuff is simply entertainment value, for some. As is the tale told above. Believed as a question of ones sanity, IMSCO... Warm regards, Roger

Let me defend a little the "Lord of the Rings". As far as I can remember, it is one of the rare books which don't mention gods, angels and religions in general.







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ludwigm wrote:Let me defend a little the "Lord of the Rings". As far as I can remember, it is one of the rare books which don't mention gods, angels and religions in general.
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Hi ludwigim, could well be. Those books were simply mentioned because of their popularity, compared to the legendary crucifixion of Jesus. Although Jesus' death is a pretty-much-historical fact, the claim of that death having the magic to pay for the multi-billions of sins of billions of sinners is the stuff of great science fiction that leaves its readers with the thought, "WOW, if only it were so, eh, Bat Man!?" Warm regards, Roger

bcspace wrote:

How did what he did wipe away the sins of billions of people?

By changing the Hubble Constant.

Nehor
A question that will probably take a lifetime of prayer, study, and meditation to answer. Good luck. Tell us how it goes

You guys are hilarious, I grant you that.
having said it, get this one;
I've never signed a pact, contract with Jesus or anyone, who should sacrifice his life for me, in exchange of my loyalty/obedience.
If I did, I must have been high on Hashish or Jack Daniels. Even that state of my mind requires some evidence
like someone taping this agreement.

ludwigm wrote:Let me defend a little the "Lord of the Rings". As far as I can remember, it is one of the rare books which don't mention gods, angels and religions in general.







.

It actually does, it just calls them by different names. This is clear when you meld The Silmarillion to the Lord of the Rings. Gandalf, Sauron, and Sauruman could be called angels without much of a stretch at all. Morgoth could be called an archangel.

harmony wrote:We're told that Christ suffered in the Garden, bled from every pore, was whipped, and was crucified whereupon he died. This suffereing was supposedly so great that he paid the debt for billions of people's sins (to Justice, whoever that is).

How did what he did wipe away the sins of billions of people? It doesn't seem like much punishment, for the sins (some of which are really bad) of everyone who was ever born. And who is Justice, that she can make that kind of claim on God himself?

Its MAAAGIC harm, magic for a made up condition. It does not make sense because the first premise of sin does not make sense.

The church controls access to Christ's "magic", therefore they are the actual magicians, stringing along a group of generational idiocy called "the faithful".

Jesus was a Palestinian jew revolutionary who had his eye on the kingship of Judea. He co opted the archetype of the Messiah while he gained a following, preaching all the while about being the real king. I don't see a difference between Jesus and Joseph Smith crowning himself "king of the world". They are both individuals with aspirations of power, one of the most truly evil forces on this planet.