Is Faith a choice?

Post by **_asbestosman** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:12 pm

Do we choose what to believe, or do simply have beliefs and then choose how to act upon them? Can we suddenly choose to believe that there are married bachelors or that Nehor is an extra-celestial? Is it that while we cannot simply choose to believe, we can choose our circumstances such that we are more likely to believe or not? If so, could we make our circumstances such that we really do come to believe that 2+2=5 and that we love Big Brother? If faith is not a choice, why is it the first principle of the gospel and how can we be judged for it? How directly or indirectly can we influence our degree of faith?

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:10 pm

Faith is a choice.

What is an extra-celestial?

Post by **_Who Knows** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:14 pm

I had a similar thread a while ago. I'll have to see if i can find it.

In a nutshell, no, i don't believe faith is entirely a choice. I don't think I could -choose- to believe in santa claus. I may say I believe it, but there's no way i could actually convince my brain that santa is real.

Aman wrote:Is it that while we cannot simply choose to believe, we can choose our circumstances such that we are more likely to believe or not?

I think this is close.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:18 pm

The Nehor wrote:What is an extra-celestial?

It's the Kolobian version of an extra-terrestrial.

Faith is a choice.

Please elucidate. I'm also interested in any results of getting yourself to have faith that 2 + 2 = 5.

Post by **_Who Knows** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:21 pm

Here's the thread I was thinking of:

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/discus ... php?t=1132

The Dude (as always) has some great comments there.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:26 pm

Who Knows wrote:Here's the thread I was thinking of:

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/discus ... php?t=1132

Good thread. I think I vaguely remembered that one too.

But is it really a choice when we have confidence in faith as a truth-finding tool? I don't have faith in horroscopes as a truth-finding tool (by the way, I'm a virgo).

Post by **_Who Knows** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:33 pm

asbestosman wrote:But is it really a choice when we have confidence in faith as a truth-finding tool? I don't have faith in horroscopes as a truth-finding tool (by the way, I'm a virgo).

Making the choice to use faith as a truth-finding tool IS the choice. From there, probably not so much.

In other words, when it comes to belief in santa claus, you can choose logic or chose faith, as your tool for discovering what your beliefs in santa claus will be. If you chose logic, then you can't still be able to choose to believe in santa. If you chose faith, perhaps you could?

by the way - i'm a virgo too. :)

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:36 pm

asbestosman wrote:
The Nehor wrote:What is an extra-celestial?

It's the Kolobian version of an extra-terrestrial.

Faith is a choice.

Please elucidate. I'm also interested in any results of getting yourself to have faith that 2 + 2 = 5.

I'm reminded of a brilliant webcomic:

"What does two plus two equal?"

"FIVE! But only for exceptionally high values of two."

Wanting to believe in God and the corresponding belief in a higher law is a choice.

I even think it's a moral choice though I'd have a hard time defending that comment. More thought is needed. I'll throw out what I've got. I think that everyone in life has some form of god that they honor. Some have many. All are aimed at things they think will save them from something (loneliness, irrelevance, poverty, self-loathing, etc.). Some will to a limited degree. These are often such things as themselves, a political movement, a car, cash in the bank, a circle of friends, a spouse, a selection of music, great literature, trashy literature, their boss, their parents, their children, video games, and pop rocks. All provide some form of escape, release, freedom, etc. To place trust in them and praise them (i.e. worship them) makes a degree of sense. Those who worship a higher law they see above themselves and greater then themselves are making a moral, humble choice.

Okay, that's as far as I've gotten. I suspect there's a lot more.

Post by **_moksha** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:56 pm

asbestosman wrote:
I'm also interested in any results of getting yourself to have faith that 2 + 2 = 5.

Try praying till you get that warm feeling.

Whenever we view some belief that radically differs from our own, we say, "I could never believe that". Yet with the right acculturation
and reinforcement, we could readily be an adherent of that seeming unbelievable belief.

Post by **_krose** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:37 pm

This is what makes "Pascal's Wager" so ridiculous. Why not choose to believe in order to hedge your bets? Uh, no.

I may want to believe in an after-life and a loving, eternal father figure. As a matter of fact, I DO want to. But I can't make myself believe. There is just no way I can now make myself "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain," so to speak.