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The City Center Project

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:10 pm
by _TAK
I was looking at RFM this afternoon and saw this interesting post a couple of weeks ago by someone named “The Mighty Builder” :

OK, let’s get this out in the open. We are a construction consulting, inspection and testing firm that deals with theses types of projects.

First let’s get the cost speculation resolved.

Currently the end cost is 10 billion dollars. This is their budget not a speculation. For reference let’s use the Conference Center. When we first started it, the budget was announced at 350 million dollars (the amount stated on the building permit application). Then with the design build and accelerated construction demanded by the Mormon church costs rose. The end cost was 1.2 billion dollars (if you take a tour now and ask one of the guides they will proudly admit this fact). The Conference Center is only one city block and consists of five stories with underground parking. The City Creek Center is going to be two and a half blocks with multiple buildings, underground parking, etc. One building alone is the 32 story condominium project which is going to cost between 750 million and 1 billion. The sad part is that even with 16 condominiums on each floor and selling them for a million dollars each, the Mormon church will only recover 480 million. The actual cost of this design build, accelerated construction will most likely come in at 15 billion dollars. Every day of delay increases the costs.

Second is the Mormon church hurting financially because of this project – YES!

In our meetings we are continually being asked how to reduce costs. For example, the buildings were to be constructed using French Marble (38 per square foot) then Chinese Granite (28 per square foot) and now a brick façade (8 – 10 per square foot)…. The main cause is attributed to TBM’s becoming upset and either reducing there tithing by using their net as the basis of 10%, or counting travel time to assignments (temple, canning, etc.), gas costs, Deseret Industries donation, etc. as payment in kind donations. And while it is true that the funds used to build the City Creek Center are not tithing, these other funds are now needed to make up the short fall caused by the reduction.

Another factor is the economy. The Mormon church conducts its financial transactions in US dollars. The US dollar has fallen in the world monetary markets. THIS IS HURTING THEM.


I suspect some of this is speculation on his part - assuming he is related to the project.

The question I have.. Do you think the church is having trouble swallowing this boondoggle in the making? Could this project really cost 10 or more BILLION?

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:28 pm
by _Yong Xi
The costs quoted seem high. OTOH, I think this could hurt the church. The economy worldwide is slowing. Utah's economy is slowing as well. There could very well be some sleepless nights ahead for church management.

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:50 pm
by _John Larsen
I think it's BS. The Church guards its finances very carefully and it's property development wing is very well seasoned. There is no way they would give this kind of information to a "consulting" company.

I also don't think the Church is hurting very much--maybe a little. I don't think people realize just how much property and commercial enterprises the Church owns. It has a lot of income without tithing receipts and I think it could easily afford 1.5 B without dipping into tithing.

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:53 pm
by _TAK
He makes an interesting point that "The (Conf. Center ) end cost was 1.2 billion dollars (if you take a tour now and ask one of the guides they will proudly admit this fact). The Conference Center is only one city block and consists of five stories with underground parking. The City Creek Center is going to be two and a half blocks with multiple buildings, underground parking, etc."

I can see this costing alot more than they had projected..

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:58 pm
by _John Larsen
TAK wrote:He makes an interesting point that "The (Conf. Center ) end cost was 1.2 billion dollars (if you take a tour now and ask one of the guides they will proudly admit this fact). The Conference Center is only one city block and consists of five stories with underground parking. The City Creek Center is going to be two and a half blocks with multiple buildings, underground parking, etc."

I can see this costing a lot more than they had projected..


Yes but the conference center is covered with all of that special granite. And I am sure that the structural supports for that big open area wasn't cheap. Malls on the other hand tend to be cheep construction.

I think they will be able to come in under 2 B. Plus, the mall will generate revenue where the conference center is simply operated at a loss.

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:54 pm
by _LifeOnaPlate
John Larsen wrote:Plus, the mall will generate revenue where the conference center is simply operated at a loss.


Exactly.

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:15 pm
by _Jason Bourne
The conference center cost was closer to $350 million.

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:34 pm
by _skippy the dead
Jason Bourne wrote:The conference center cost was closer to $350 million.


This seems more realistic. I also doubt that a tour guide is proudly proclaiming a cost of $1.2bil, since the church has actually been pretty quiet on the actual cost.

I think this guy is full of speculative hooey.

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:48 am
by _solomarineris
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
John Larsen wrote:Plus, the mall will generate revenue where the conference center is simply operated at a loss.


Exactly.


OK,OK......
I think you're right. When everything's said and done Church will make a killing, (that's my bet) (I'm hoping I'll get my hand one of those plush condos for my posterity before prices hit the roof).

This Project increases the GAP between haves/have-nots.
It won't look to good otsiders looking their tithing sunk in a faraway fairy land.
Church PR, is taking a huge tumble because of this in-equity.
Of course, the Brass are not idiots to re-build Africa or Soth America's poor villages, bring them water & sanitation.
Well, LoaP, your Ttithing money is at work.
Build Salt lake City!!!!!!
Not that I complain, I love it....SLC is My favorite watering hole, the best City on this Planet.

Re: The City Center Project

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:52 am
by _moksha
TAK wrote:The question I have.. Do you think the church is having trouble swallowing this boondoggle in the making? Could this project really cost 10 or more BILLION?


Huge projects always cost a lot more than projected. Certainly that 2.5 billion is an underestimate. 10 billion would be way over budget. More than the I-15 expansion project, but the Italian marble, gold leafing and baby seal fur do not come cheap.