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Can a leftist be considered a faithful Latter Day Saint?

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:14 am
by _Droopy
Or, more appropriately and less inflammatory perhaps, can anyone, whatever he labels him or herself, who holds to the positions below, be considered a faithful Latter Day Saint?

To avoid a scattergun approach, I'll take a group of issues and beliefs traditionally supported and maintained by the Left, and open this up to a critique of the possibility of harmonizing these specific traditional leftist positions on these issues with the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.


1. Convenience abortion on demand (ideally federally funded) from the moment of conception to the moment the fetus enters the birth canal (essentially the legal extent of the Roe decision and the traditional position taken by NOW, NARL,and the Democratic Party (especially its leadership).

2. Full explicit sex education from the early grades, including frank discussion of sexual technique and the indoctrination of the young in morally relativistic concepts of human sexuality (including deviant sexual behavior such as male homosexuality, lesbianism, and transsexualism).

3. Class envy. Hostility to business, personal achievement, and wealth, and resentment of others who have different skills, talents, and abilities and who have achieved greater financial success and security than others because of those abilities and various choices made throughout life.

4. Egalitarianism. Equality of outcomes. If one achieves or gains something, all must, and no one should be allowed to advance or achieve anything faster or farther than the slowest or dullest in the group ("outcome based education", for example). This also involves mass consciousness. What happens to the group happens to all, and is shared by the group (this includes successes by individual members of the group as well as the absorption of responsibility for immoral or criminal actions by individual members of the group by the group as a whole).

5. Environmental determinism. All bad, immoral, or criminal behavior, no matter how extreme, is a product of the social environment and the unfair and oppressive structure and institutions of society. The victims of crime (at least the bourgeoisie middle and upper classes) deserve, in a very real sense, their victimization because it is they who have created the victimizers (this is especially true in the case of black criminality). There is no free agency, only conditioned responses to environmental stimulus.

6. Statolatry. Government is the engine and provider of human felicity and happiness, and human beings should willingly abrogate their liberty and associated free agency in return for the minimization of life risks, guaranteed economic subsistence, and an enveloping blanket of protection from a plethora of risks and consequences associated with personal agency, including poor financial decisions, destructive lifestyle choices, choice of diet, how many hours a week they will work, who they may associate with, and the kinds of information they may have access to and in what manner (the Fairness Doctrine etc.).

7. The delegitimization and destruction of the traditional family, marriage, gender roles, and sexual norms in favor of pansexual hedonism divorced from committed male/female bonding and domestic responsibilities, the feminist abandonment of family for career and material aggrandizement, and moral relativism (the sexual revolution and "situational morality"). All beliefs, moralities, ethical systems, and, with Multiculturalism, all cultures are of equal value and worth, and no discriminations can be made between them that are themselves intellectually or morally legitimate.

8. Human beings are nothing more than very intelligent primates generated by purely blind, random physical and chemical processes who's personalities are themselves epiphenomena of those blind, random chance natural interactions. All morality, beliefs, ideas, and feelings are the derivatives of genetic, biochemical, and physical antecedents and have no inherent, underlying meaning or purpose. The universe is non-teleological.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:19 am
by _skippy the dead
What you've listed is not a

. . .group of issues and beliefs traditionally supported and maintained by the Left. . .


This is really a tiresome song you sing.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:22 am
by _Droopy
Deleted.

Pointless.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:23 am
by _Tarski
Oh the irony. Elsewhere droopy posts this:
While most conservatives have, for the most part, a substantial understanding of the Left and its beliefs and attitudes, most leftists have only a cartoon understanding of anything outside of their own reference frame.


His list above is worse than a cartoon version of liberal political philosophy--it doesn't even bear a resemblance as far as I can see.
Such a stunningly mind screwed ideologue.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:30 am
by _Droopy
What you're afraid of Tarski is the naked fact that quite literally everything I've elucidated above represents the classic, traditionally held beliefs of most of the cultural Left and are and have been, in one form or another, political orthodoxies within the Democratic (and other leftist) Party for upwards of forty years.

Its ugly, isn't it? Ugly, noxious, and even hideous.

Which is why you cannot admit, like so many on the Left, to what you really believe or to the implications of those beliefs.

Even the Gorgon herself dare not gaze upon her own reflection.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:44 am
by _Tarski
Droopy wrote:What you're afraid of Tarski is the naked fact that quite literally everything I've elucidated above represents the classic, traditionally held beliefs of most of the cultural Left and are and have been, in one form or another, political orthodoxies within the Democratic (and other leftist) Party for upwards of forty years.

.


Only to the extent the right endorses fundamentalist Christian dominionism, the denial of science unless it helps profits, the desired to force everyone to obey the Bible to the letter, the valuation of profit above all else and the belief that all brown races are inferior godless animals and suited only to manual labor, and the belief that women should be constantly subservient to men and that God is a whilte male in a KKK hood who hates all nature down to the last flower. Did I mention the part about exterminating homosexuals in gas chambers?
Ugly isn't it?
Oh, not true? A cartoon?
LOL

YOU ARE A NUT.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:48 am
by _Droopy
Your problem here is that while your examples are, indeed, cartoons, mine are longstanding ideologial and philosophically beliefs held by the Left in in academia, the media, and institutional politics for much of my lifetime.

I"m not sure why you have a problem with this, as the literature and policy prescriptions supporting them are mountainous, and of long historical standing.

Well, you know, keep up the pose Tarski.

Re: Can a leftist be considered a faithful Latter Day Saint?

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:50 am
by _solomarineris
Droopy wrote:8. Human beings are nothing more than very intelligent primates generated by purely blind, random physical and chemical processes who's personalities are themselves epiphenomena of those blind, random chance natural interactions. All morality, beliefs, ideas, and feelings are the derivatives of genetic, biochemical, and physical antecedents and have no inherent, underlying meaning or purpose. The universe is non-teleological.


You're close. the problem is you know most of the answers and still are in denial.
Fine, waste your time, while the reality is at your fingertips....
For some reason your brain is not cooperating....

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:50 am
by _Droopy
Tarski, was the sexual revolution and its associated philosophical components a phenomena of the late sixties and early seventies cultural and political Left or not?

Re: Can a leftist be considered a faithful Latter Day Saint?

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:52 am
by _Droopy
solomarineris wrote:
Droopy wrote:8. Human beings are nothing more than very intelligent primates generated by purely blind, random physical and chemical processes who's personalities are themselves epiphenomena of those blind, random chance natural interactions. All morality, beliefs, ideas, and feelings are the derivatives of genetic, biochemical, and physical antecedents and have no inherent, underlying meaning or purpose. The universe is non-teleological.


You're close. the problem is you know most of the answers and still are in denial.
Fine, waste your time, while the reality is at your fingertips....
For some reason your brain is not cooperating....



Really, I didn't start this thread for more Madalyn Murray O' Hair trailer park smarm.


Yes, the derailing has begun. Full steam ahead...