DiscussMormonism.com

As far as a money making enterprise, the church has done well. They have made good use of their tax exempt status, and have cultivated a loyal core of members who cough up a sizable portion of their income in hopes of some future payoff. In the money department, they are right up there with all the successful MLMs.

But what about the churches impact on the society as a religious institution, or a force for good? After all, the marketing literature claims this is God’s kingdom on earth. Maybe my expectations are a little too high, but it seems to me that with God at the helm we should a major player on the world stage as a force for good. Pushing leaders to end the war, marshalling resources to eradicate hunger and poverty are some of the things I would expect. After all, this is supposedly the same God who parted the Red Sea, but I guess all those miracles in the Old Testament are a tough act to follow.

So, here is my question: Is the world a better place because of the LDS church?

You asked about the impact on society as a whole, as a force for good.

Without the Mormon Church, Utah would be less peculiar and more like Idaho/Colorado/Arizona. That's for sure. Maybe, even, the wild west would have been settled a little differently without Mormons. Other than that, the world wouldn't even know the difference if Joseph Smith hadn't been born. The missionary efforts of the 20th century have not had an impact on world affairs, that's for darn sure. I would say the Mormon Church has been molded by society as a whole, at least more than the other way around. It is a product of and borrower of other "goods", and not so much a producer of unique or original "goods". So much for a stone rolling forth to fill the whole world....

The Dude wrote:You asked about the impact on society as a whole, as a force for good.

Without the Mormon Church, Utah would be less peculiar and more like Idaho/Colorado/Arizona. That's for sure. Maybe, even, the wild west would have been settled a little differently without Mormons. Other than that, the world wouldn't even know the difference if Joseph Smith hadn't been born. The missionary efforts of the 20th century have not had an impact on world affairs, that's for darn sure. I would say the Mormon Church has been molded by society as a whole, at least more than the other way around. It is a product of and borrower of other "goods", and not so much a producer of unique or original "goods". So much for a stone rolling forth to fill the whole world....

I've never really thought about this, but you're quite right. Mormonism's main feature is that it resists society as a whole, and thus it absorbs societal changes slowly (it seems to be on a 25-50 year lag time). Hence it resisted abandoning institutional racism until well past the time when everyone but the South Africans had abandoned it. It still resists equal rights for women and homosexuals, and it clings to a vision of the family culled from Leave It to Beaver. But as a positive force in the world? I supposed they've done some charitable work (though, judging by British figures, it's a miniscule percentage of their wealth), but mostly they're known for white-shirted boys on bicycles, eyesore temples, and polygamy.

Runtu wrote:

The Dude wrote:You asked about the impact on society as a whole, as a force for good.

Without the Mormon Church, Utah would be less peculiar and more like Idaho/Colorado/Arizona. That's for sure. Maybe, even, the wild west would have been settled a little differently without Mormons. Other than that, the world wouldn't even know the difference if Joseph Smith hadn't been born. The missionary efforts of the 20th century have not had an impact on world affairs, that's for darn sure. I would say the Mormon Church has been molded by society as a whole, at least more than the other way around. It is a product of and borrower of other "goods", and not so much a producer of unique or original "goods". So much for a stone rolling forth to fill the whole world....

I've never really thought about this, but you're quite right. Mormonism's main feature is that it resists society as a whole, and thus it absorbs societal changes slowly (it seems to be on a 25-50 year lag time). Hence it resisted abandoning institutional racism until well past the time when everyone but the South Africans had abandoned it. It still resists equal rights for women and homosexuals, and it clings to a vision of the family culled from Leave It to Beaver. But as a positive force in the world? I supposed they've done some charitable work (though, judging by British figures, it's a miniscule percentage of their wealth), but mostly they're known for white-shirted boys on bicycles, eyesore temples, and polygamy.

The only eyesore temple is in Provo. Man, that's an ugly building. The rest are from okay to very nice, and the old ones are quite lovely.

Agree about the white shirts and polygamy. Mormons are also known for our peculiar eating and drinking requirements, and for large families. I don't see us as particularly well known for charity work (probably because we do so little of it), nor for being a moving force in society or world affairs, like the Catholic church. I think we're pretty marginal, not a major player at all.

harmony wrote:The only eyesore temple is in Provo. Man, that's an ugly building. The rest are from okay to very nice, and the old ones are quite lovely.

I was thinking in particular of the San Diego Temple. Absolutely hideous.

Agree about the white shirts and polygamy. Mormons are also known for our peculiar eating and drinking requirements, and for large families. I don't see us as particularly well known for charity work (probably because we do so little of it), nor for being a moving force in society or world affairs, like the Catholic church. I think we're pretty marginal, not a major player at all.

It's interesting to me that, after I left the church, people were much more frank about what they really thought of the church and its members. I was taught my whole life that the "world" was watching us, that we needed to be examples, and that people would think highly of us as long as we stuck to our principles. After I left, people I knew started telling me that Mormons seemed artificial and a little weird, to the extent that they paid attention to us at all.

Runtu wrote:

harmony wrote:The only eyesore temple is in Provo. Man, that's an ugly building. The rest are from okay to very nice, and the old ones are quite lovely.

I was thinking in particular of the San Diego Temple. Absolutely hideous.

I was putting that one in the "okay" box. My minitemple is a lump of granite stuck in the middle of the desert. Had they used a native stone, it would have been greatly improved.

It's interesting to me that, after I left the church, people were much more frank about what they really thought of the church and its members. I was taught my whole life that the "world" was watching us, that we needed to be examples, and that people would think highly of us as long as we stuck to our principles. After I left, people I knew started telling me that Mormons seemed artificial and a little weird, to the extent that they paid attention to us at all.

Perhaps we appear artificial because we think everyone is watching us. Hard to act natural, when you feel like someone's always watching you.

Runtu

I love the San Diego Temple!

AS for the OP question? Well I think the world is better. I wonder what the Great Basin of the USA would have been with out the Mormons. I think the Church has great impact expecially when there are disasters and they provide assistance. Would someone else fill that void if the LDS Chruch were not there? Yea maybe, who knows?

But I think the main impact is how the Church impacts the lives of its members and how they live. LDS people tend to be, in general, fairly decent people, productive members of society, raise good families, are good citizens and so on. I think that is its main impact. It would be nice to see the Church more socially active in helping to solve the ills of the world. Maybe they want members to go out and to that. I know we are supposed to be involved in community things that are good and worthwhile. But the Church takes a lot of time that members could use to do that. So most are not civicly inclined because they are to busy doing Church callings.

Jason Bourne wrote:I wonder what the Great Basin of the USA would have been with out the Mormons.

Like I said, it would probably be more like Colorado or another neighboring state. BIG deal.

I think the Church has great impact expecially when there are disasters and they provide assistance. Would someone else fill that void if the LDS Chruch were not there? Yea maybe, who knows?

They're just doing it because everybody else is. So yeah, other groups would definitely fill this minor void if the Mormons weren't there.

But I think the main impact is how the Church impacts the lives of its members and how they live. LDS people tend to be, in general, fairly decent people, productive members of society, raise good families, are good citizens and so on. I think that is its main impact.

Indeed, and this is of trivial relevance to the OP, which seemed to ask about the impact on the rest of the world.

Certainly Avon has had a significant impact on the lives of the women who religiously use their products (not to mention those who sell it!), but it does very little for the millions of women who buy comparable makeup at a salon.

Runtu wrote:It's interesting to me that, after I left the church, people were much more frank about what they really thought of the church and its members. I was taught my whole life that the "world" was watching us, that we needed to be examples, and that people would think highly of us as long as we stuck to our principles. After I left, people I knew started telling me that Mormons seemed artificial and a little weird, to the extent that they paid attention to us at all.

Hi Runtu,

I didn't know you left the church. I resigned this year. This has been my observation as well. I was surprised how brutally frank kind people could be about their neighbors.

Mormons, in general, don't seem to have enough time to associate with non-mormons unless it can be justified as a missionary effort.

Inconceivable wrote:Hi Runtu,

I didn't know you left the church. I resigned this year. This has been my observation as well. I was surprised how brutally frank kind people could be about their neighbors.

Mormons, in general, don't seem to have enough time to associate with non-mormons unless it can be justified as a missionary effort.

I haven't resigned, but I'm pretty much "inactive" (I've been to church once in the last 2 1/2 months). But emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually I've left the church.

I was surprised at the low opinion people had of church members. Of course, they never would have said so to my face when I was a believer.