DiscussMormonism.com

From my blog:

Yesterday a good friend and fellow apostate invited me to have lunch with him, so I went by his house to pick him up. His wife greeted me at the door, and it was obvious that, not only was she not expecting me, but she didn’t know who I was. After a few minutes of awkwardness, my friend explained that we knew each other through a message board where people in various states of participation in the LDS church talk about life and the universe.

She decided to come with us to lunch, but she was clearly upset about the turn of events, and at one point she was in tears, lamenting the changes she had seen in her husband. I felt terrible that I had been the cause of such a situation, but we had an enjoyable lunch anyway, though we avoided any subject likely to raise criticism of Mormonism. We talked about our families, careers, and even our missions to South America. It was very pleasant.

Back at the office, I was listening to my iPod, and an old song from The Police came on:

Take the space between us.
Fill it up some way.

I sat there almost in tears thinking of the huge spaces between me and my wife and my friend and his wife, all because we discovered that the LDS church isn’t true after all. I don’t think I had realized before just how much Mormonism was the common ground between us, the glue holding our relationship together. You probably couldn’t find two people more different than my wife and me, but we shared a commitment to Mormonism that bridged every gap and made the differences seem trivial.

With the loss of that common ground, my marriage has been very difficult indeed. Sometimes it seems like there isn’t anything but space between us, but in a way, losing that obvious connecting thread has been good for us because it has forced us to dig deeper and find the real bonds of love and commitment and friendship between us. Ironically, our marriage is built on more solid ground after losing my faith.

But every so often the space becomes magnified, and we have moments like my friend did yesterday when the differences between us become all too clear and almost too painful to admit. But those moments pass, and we muddle along.

I still feel bad that I was involved in creating such an awkward and painful moment, but I think my friend and his wife will be all right. And so will my wife and I.

Thanks for sharing that, Runtu. I often looked to my LDS faith as a commitment that helped my relationship with my wife. We both, believe it or not, enjoyed participating in the temple rituals as a couple, although I admit we did not do it very much. Although we both quit attending the LDS Church at the same time, I was very afraid that my wife would come to reject me with the Church, since I had seen this happen to others. So far this has not happened, but I know that I must now look other places to strengthen the bonds of our relationship. I am thankful she is a part of my life, and I don't want to lose her.

Hi Runtu,


I find myself getting angry when I hear how belief and disbelief in the LDS church often breaks and destroys marriages and families.

Briefly, my experience is that my relationship has only deepened and become more amazing AFTER my disbelief.

My husband is of course fabulous to handle my disbelief so extraordinarily well, (yes, he is the most amazing person in the world), but more than anything I think it comes from the peace that I have felt since letting go of a religion that in many ways thwarted my spiritual journey and harmed my emotional life. The healthier each person is as they come together in a relationship, the better the marriage, IMHO.

I just want to let people know that it is possible to have an truly incredible marriage even if both partners don't believe in the exact same things.

~dancer~

My wife and I both left together at the same time and it has not always been easy. I have also witnessed other couples who both left the Church and ended up in divorce. One problem is that the Church provides a kind-of supportive scaffolding holding up marriages—not necessarily in positive way. Rather then build the relationship and intimacy, the Church just keeps people together and in “proper” roles based on fear and commandment.

Once you kick that out either on one side or on both sides, you have this void where the Church used to be. You now have the responsibility of making your marriage work because it is not the default mod anymore. You can leave without eternal consequences.

Some of what you and I feel is just the normal relationships stuff. We just didn’t have to deal with it before. Marriages are not easy and it is hard for any to people to get along. This is true when either one or both are changing (and in reality, everyone is changing all of the time).

It is kind of like growing up and become an adult long after it should have happened in the first place.

Runtu, you and I should to do lunch. I have no wife you could upset. Besides, I would really like to chat with you.

The Space Between - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvkX3t5LgVI

You cannot quit me so quickly
Is no hope in you for me
No corner you could squeeze me
But I've got all the time for you, love

The space between, the tears we cry
Is the laughter keeps us coming back for more
The space between, the wicked lies we tell
And hope to keep us safe from the pain

Will I hold you again?
These fickle, fuddled words confuse me
Like will it rain today?
We waste the hours with talking, talking
These twisted games were playing

Were strange allies
With warring hearts
What a wild-eyed beast you be
The space between, the wicked lies we tell
And hope to keep us safe from the pain

Will I hold you again?
Will I hold you...

Look at us spinning out in the madness of a rollercoaster
You know you went off like the devil in a church
In the middle of a crowded room
All we can do, my love
Is hope we don't take this ship down

The space between, where you smile and hide
Where youll find me if I get to go
The space between, the bullets in our fire fight
Is where Ill be hiding, waiting for you
The rain that falls splashed in your heart
Ran like sadness down the window into your room
The space between, our wicked lies
Is where we hope to keep safe from pain

Take my hand
cause were walking out of here
Oh, right out of here
Love is all we need dear
The space between, whats wrong and right
Is where youll find me hiding, waiting for you
The space between, your heart and mine
Is a space well fill with time
The space between...

Runtu,

I'd like to comment in depth, but suffice to say, it causes me to feel a greater bitterness toward the church in this area than in any other.

It has been a strange violence upon myself and family.

Right there with you man. I know exactly of the things you speak of.

Its sick and twisted that in order to stay close with our wives the church demands (through our wives) that we must bow to lies, false histories and false authority.

Its a twisted screwed up situation and im surprised my wife and I are still married.

I was reading about LDS divorce rates for another thread and was reminded that the divorce rate in "mixed" marriages (between LDS and nonLDS) is 40%. Forty percent. I imagine the divorce rate between believing Mormon and apostate is even higher.

When one is a believing Mormon, Mormonism almost completely defines one's life. Certainly we were taught that shared religious conviction was THE most important criteria to look for in a future spouse. When I was at BYU, SWK made statements that implied that if the couple shared a devotion to the church, other differences were irrelevant, and they could have "great happiness". That only works if your life completely revolves around the church. But if that stops....then what do you have?

My heart breaks for you, runtu, and others in the same position. The one good thing about my marital situation when I left the church is that I didn't have a marriage worth saving in the first place, so that wasn't even a factor in my decision.

I think LDS couples who end up married well - not just sharing faith, but compatibility and the ability to enjoy one another - are lucky indeed. I really do not believe the LDS culture is particularly good at helping its youngsters marry well.

Mixed marriages that survive the loss of faith usually have to have some sort of strong bond outside the faith.

beastie wrote:I was reading about LDS divorce rates for another thread and was reminded that the divorce rate in "mixed" marriages (between LDS and nonLDS) is 40%. Forty percent. I imagine the divorce rate between believing Mormon and apostate is even higher.

When one is a believing Mormon, Mormonism almost completely defines one's life. Certainly we were taught that shared religious conviction was THE most important criteria to look for in a future spouse. When I was at BYU, SWK made statements that implied that if the couple shared a devotion to the church, other differences were irrelevant, and they could have "great happiness". That only works if your life completely revolves around the church. But if that stops....then what do you have?

My heart breaks for you, runtu, and others in the same position. The one good thing about my marital situation when I left the church is that I didn't have a marriage worth saving in the first place, so that wasn't even a factor in my decision.

I think LDS couples who end up married well - not just sharing faith, but compatibility and the ability to enjoy one another - are lucky indeed. I really do not believe the LDS culture is particularly good at helping its youngsters marry well.

Mixed marriages that survive the loss of faith usually have to have some sort of strong bond outside the faith.

I'm a young single guy. My experience with knowing couples where one member had left the Church was a huge catalyst in making me see the need to be honest with myself about my testimony. Once I realized that by lying to myself now I would soon bring heartache to a future spouse and (potentially) children, I couldn't keep up the internal dishonesty any longer.

I don't envy any of you whose spouses believe differently than you, on either side of the line.