Birth Control vs Abortion

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_GoodK

Birth Control vs Abortion

Post by _GoodK »

Again, religious idiots show up to try and change laws so that their beliefs can be used to govern the personal choices of others.

This is actually pretty scary, if you think about it.

Here is a link and some excerpts http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/426 :



We're all familiar with the popular chant among conservatives that "life begins at conception." But does that mean our government can say that life ends at contraception?

Apparently, yes, if a proposal from the Department of Health and Human Services that carefully redefines contraception as abortion is adopted.




The religious fervor is carefully hidden in the minutia. The leaked proposal initially reads as a defense of healthcare providers who fear being discriminated against for refusing to provide services that are contrary to their religious beliefs. Basically, just because a clinic or insurance plan receives federal funding "does not authorize any court or any public official or other public authority to require" the entity to provide or pay for services such as sterilization or abortion.

Which seems somewhat harmless, until you change the meaning of abortion to include contraceptive medicines that 40 percent of women in the U.S. use regularly.




"A 2001 Zogby International American Values poll revealed that 49% of Americans believe that human life begins at conception. Presumably many who hold this belief think that any action that destroys human life after conception is the termination of a pregnancy, and so would be included in their definition of the term 'abortion.'"




The effects could be far-reaching. According to NARAL Pro-Choice America, a rape-victim who goes to a health clinic for treatment could be denied emergency contraceptives, women who rely on Title X-funded programs could be denied prescribed contraceptives, and some could even be denied a referral to a clinic which supports reproductive care.

The legal basis for the proposal, the Church and Weldon Amendments, are described as "religiously influenced interference in medicine" by Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health.
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

Nothing new, was in the Post. And someone there had sense to actually say what you will not. In every healthcare situation, there will be people there who feel comfortable dispensing birth control and performing abortions. People choosing to opt out of it will not shut the entire system down.

Next.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

Sam Harris wrote:Next.


Droopy wrote:Move along. Nothing to see here.



(obviously you didn't read the proposal)
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

I read the Post which spoke about it...before your first fit of mouth foaming. But I understand your need to posture and place yourself above others in this "I'm so knowledgeable" situation.

Once again little K...

There will always be people in healthcare situations (atheists or people who just don't care to force their beliefs) who will perform these procedures and dispense birth control.

Repeating your "you're stupid and unlearned" line doesn't change that.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

This is a link to the actual bill being proposed:

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/emailphot ... 45-CFR.pdf

Frankly, it's simply about funding. No one is talking about making contraception illegal (or abortion for that matter).

They are simply talking about what the government will pay for and what it won't. It also isn't stating that Medicaid/Medicare won't pay for these medications. It's simply stating that faith based services are not required to.

My daughter and I are both on birth control medication. We pay for it retail $9.00 per month at Wal Mart without any type of insurance copay.

With more larger pharmacies going to $4-10 perscriptions, I think this is much ado about nothing.
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

Extremists (of all kinds) like to make much ado about nothing.

I am a supporter of the right to choose...and that includes abortion for those whose fanaticism disables their cognitive functioning.

I would take the pill but have been instructed not to so I don't get another clot.

If a faith-based institution doesn't want to perform abortions or dispense pills, that is their choice.

Go elsewhere.

It's hilarious, these kids who holler about their rights being taken, they're ultimately trying to do the same thing to others by pressing their beliefs and their beliefs alone onto others. But let's ignore that and talk about the Crusades...
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Sam Harris
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am

Post by _Sam Harris »

The part that GoodK refused to read:

Workers in all sectors of the economy enjoy legal protection of their consciences and religious liberties. In the health care industry, there are several statutory provisions that specifically address individuals’ religious and conscience rights. These federal statutes prohibit recipients of certain federal funds from coercing individuals into participating in actions they find religiously or morally objectionable.


Where does it say that no one will be available to perform an abortion or dispense birth control.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Sam Harris
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Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am

Post by _Sam Harris »

As far as I'm concerned, it would be a problem only if Medicaid refused to pay for birth control, because there are enough irresponsible teenage mothers abusing medicaid because they got pregnant in the first place and can't handle their business. People with legitimate health concerns who work (but don't get good insurance) can't access Medicaid because "they make too much".

I think the words "Church Amendment" located throughout the document caused a reaction. Don't say that bad word....church, I mean.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

liz3564 wrote:
Frankly, it's simply about funding. No one is talking about making contraception illegal (or abortion for that matter).


No, it won't make illegal. It will make birth control harder to get. And it iss about calling what was once considered contraception "abortion" which is what concerns me.

Sam Harris wrote:I read the Post which spoke about it...before your first fit of mouth foaming.


Mouth foaming? Wow.

But I understand your need to posture and place yourself above others in this "I'm so knowledgeable" situation.


Once again, I have no clue what you are trying to say. I love this place.

Once again little K...


Do you know what "a little good k" means? Or are you simply being juvenile and implying that I am little in some capacity? Ya thought so.

Repeating your "you're stupid and unlearned" line doesn't change that.


Hmm. I don't think I said that once, let alone repeated it. Nothing new, is right, Sam Harris the poster.

Sam Harris wrote:
Where does it say that no one will be available to perform an abortion or dispense birth control.


Ummm... Where did I say that it said that?
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

Sam Harris wrote:
It's hilarious, these kids who holler about their rights being taken, they're ultimately trying to do the same thing to others by pressing their beliefs and their beliefs alone onto others. But let's ignore that and talk about the Crusades...




This sort of circular, non-sensical logic belongs on www.tektonics.org.
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