information re LDS literalism

[DrW]

Hi All, looking for GA statements regarding the Flood, Tower of Babel, Jonah, Job etc that suggests such stories not be taken as absolute truths. Any help in this will be much appreciated as i'm engaged in discussion with the SP & the RR on the pure truth of the whole Bible... Thanks in advance, Roger

[_John Larsen]

The beauty of looking for such statements is that no matter how many you haven't found, there could always be more. I love apologetics.

[_cinepro]

Hi All, looking for GA statements regarding the Flood, Tower of Babel, Jonah, Job etc that suggests such stories not be taken as absolute truths. Any help in this will be much appreciated as i'm engaged in discussion with the SP & the RR on the pure truth of the whole Bible... Thanks in advance, Roger

Good luck with that. Let me know if you find even one.

As long as college-level scripture study courses teach these stories as literal truth, I think it's safe to say that there aren't any "alternative understandings" in the upper levels of Church leadership.

[_Chap]

Thanks to Cinepro's link, hours of fun await the reader.

I never knew what treasures of learning in ancient Hebrew the prophet Joseph Smith revealed, unsuspected to other scholars. But better still, the Institute manual on the Old Testament reveals that Joseph Smith had a hand in the creation of the earth.

Almost it persuadeth me to be a Christian:

(2-4) Genesis 1:1. Who Created the Earth?

While the record indicates that God created the heavens and the earth, there is additional information as to exactly who that was. The Prophet Joseph said:

“I shall comment on the very first Hebrew word in the Bible; I will make a comment on the very first sentence of the history of creation in the Bible—Berosheit. I want to analyze the word. Baith—in, by, through, and everything else. Rosh—the head. Sheit—grammatical termination. When the inspired man wrote it, he did not put the baith there. An old Jew without any authority added the word; he thought it too bad to begin to talk about the head! It read first, ‘The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods.’ That is the true meaning of the words. Baurau signifies to bring forth. If you do not believe it, you do not believe the learned man of God. Learned men can teach you no more than what I have told you. Thus the head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council.

“. . . The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand councilors sat at the head in yonder heavens and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at the time.” (Teachings, pp. 348–49.) The Abraham account of the Creation reflects this idea of the plurality of Gods (see Abraham 4).

Although it was the council of the Gods that supervised the Creation, numerous scriptures indicate that Jehovah, the premortal Jesus Christ, was actually given the responsibility for carrying out the work of the Creation, not for this earth alone but also for innumerable others. To Moses God explained: “And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33; for an extensive list of other scriptures showing that Jesus is the Creator, see “Jesus Christ, Creator” in the Topical Guide).

Jehovah, or Christ, had the assistance of Michael in creating the earth. Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained who Michael was:

“Our great prince, Michael, known in mortality as Adam, stands next to Christ in the eternal plan of salvation and progression. In pre-existence Michael was the most intelligent, powerful, and mighty spirit son of God, who was destined to come to this earth, excepting only the Firstborn, under whose direction and pursuant to whose counsel he worked. ‘He is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men.’ (Teachings, p. 157.) The name Michael apparently, and with propriety, means one ‘who is like God.’

“In the creation of the earth, Michael played a part second only to that of Christ.” (Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., p. 491.)

Abraham records that in the midst of “many of the noble and great” premortal spirits was one “like unto God,” who said to them, “We will go down . . . and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell” (Abraham 3:22, 24; emphasis added). This passage suggests that others besides Adam may have assisted in the Creation. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith taught:

“It is true that Adam helped to form this earth. He labored with our Savior Jesus Christ. I have a strong view or conviction that there were others also who assisted them. Perhaps Noah and Enoch; and why not Joseph Smith, and those who were appointed to be rulers before the earth was formed? [Abraham 3:2–4.]” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:74–75.)

[_Roger Morrison]

I didn't think it would be this difficult!? Where's Rollo when I need him :-)?? I thought I recalled some back issues of Ensign that carried such statements?

Thanks Cinepro. IAM aghast at that nonsense being presented as believable in the 20th century, let alone in the 21st!?!? "WOW!" Although, they acknowleged they (LDS church) would not put any number to the age of Earth...

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I didn't think it would be this difficult!? Where's Rollo when I need him :-)?? I thought I recalled some back issues of Ensign that carried such statements?

Sorry for the delay, but I've been away on business. I've done little to no research on the Flood, but I do recall a good article in Sunstone a few years ago about the case for a "limited" Flood, which may contain past GA statements about the global Flood.

[_Roger Morrison]

I didn't think it would be this difficult!? Where's Rollo when I need him :-)?? I thought I recalled some back issues of Ensign that carried such statements?

Sorry for the delay, but I've been away on business. I've done little to no research on the Flood, but I do recall a good article in Sunstone a few years ago about the case for a "limited" Flood, which may contain past GA statements about the global Flood.

No prob bro. Take your time. Flood stuff will be great, or anything else that will give pause to the SP & AR I am in discussion with. From the SP's last letter, "...Events like the flood and the Tower of Babel did occur...because others do not believe...does not change this fact." WOW!

Whatever you find will be appreciated, Rollo. Warm regards, Roger

[_cksalmon]

I didn't think it would be this difficult!? Where's Rollo when I need him :-)?? I thought I recalled some back issues of Ensign that carried such statements?

Sorry for the delay, but I've been away on business. I've done little to no research on the Flood, but I do recall a good article in Sunstone a few years ago about the case for a "limited" Flood, which may contain past GA statements about the global Flood.

No prob bro. Take your time. Flood stuff will be great, or anything else that will give pause to the SP & AR I am in discussion with. From the SP's last letter, "...Events like the flood and the Tower of Babel did occur...because others do not believe...does not change this fact." WOW!

Whatever you find will be appreciated, Rollo. Warm regards, Roger

Roger--

Check out Dialogue 40:3 (Fall 2007)--"On balancing faith in Mormonism with traditional biblical stories: the Noachin flood story."

I don't know if it will be helpful, ultimately. But, it might be worth perusing. I can send you a copy if you don't have access. PM me.

[_Gazelam]

All your going to find Roger is stronger and stronger evidence that these events did in fact occur.

Do some searchs on the great scattering. Do a search on Eridu and all of the writings they had on the Flood.

[_John Larsen]

All your going to find Roger is stronger and stronger evidence that these events did in fact occur.

Do some searchs on the great scattering. Do a search on Eridu and all of the writings they had on the Flood.

There are very few things in life that I am absolutely sure of. One of them is the non-existence of a universal flood. Impossible.