Page 1 of 8

DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:09 am
by _Mister Scratch
Well, I have to doff my hat for our old buddy LifeOnaPlate for this one. Apparently, the Mickey Mouse-ear-wearing amateur apologist and full-time brown-noser was hard at work during the FAIR conference. Over at his blog, entitled "Life On Gold Plates," he has compiled notes on each of the presentations. Of special interest to me were "Scotty Dog" Gordon's "Internet Mormonism" and The Good Professor's "Humble Apologetics." You can peruse the notes for yourself here:

http://lifeongoldplates.blogspot.com/

Here are a couple of choice tidbits from LoaP's notes on the presentation:

Some are critical because they are concerned with the tone and method. Hard as it is to say we need to listen to them, though many of their accusations can be flat-out false. There is an ad hominem story about how apologists behave and they are wrong in many cases. Many people haven't even read the stuff. Still, it is never wrong to listen to your critics. And to the extent that tone has gotten into what we wanted to say, we need to improve in that area.


Who knew that, at last, DCP would admit that the FARMS Review suffers from a "tone" problem? Good for you, Professor P.! I knew you could do it!

Next, check out this passage, where The Good Professor compares apologists to doctors who've taken the Hippocratic Oath:

The first rule must be: "First do no harm." If we do good it is icing on the cake, Peterson says. Always be prepared to give a reason for the hope, but do it with gentleness and respect. Message boards can be pretty strong, pretty argumentetive. There is a lot of testosterone involved in that area.


Ah, right. I'm sure that was exactly what DCP was thinking when he published Bill Hamblin's "Quinn is a bad historian" article, or in his exchange with James White.

The difference between apologists and historians is that the first attack the opponent and the latter want to take them to lunch. "What I like to do is to have the enemy for lunch," Peterson said. He doesn't see the distinction so distinctly.


Oh, really? And when can I expect my invitation to Cougareat?

Anyways: kudos to LoaP for the notes, and, at base, I do have to applaud DCP for at least trying to address the "tone" problem which is everywhere in LDS apologetics. On another thread, there is talk about the many horrible posts of Pahoran. One can only hope that The Good Professor will see this as part of the same problem he addressed in his FAIR Conference talk.

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:20 am
by _mms
Which thread has the Pahoran-post discussion? That dude needs help, though, for sure.

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:21 am
by _harmony
"What I like to do is to have the enemy for lunch," Peterson said."

Would that be with catsup or mayo?

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:43 am
by _Gadianton
Skinny-L sure has set a great example of what doing apologetics humbly is all about. Did Dr. Peterson bring up Skinny-L in his presentation and share examples of the model tone found therin?

Did he also mention that his fans cheer him on not as the humble statesman who returns cruelty with kindness, but as the great avenger? FatherK is a perfect example. Cheering on Dr. Peterson for his ability to roast the critics and make fun of them better than they make fun of him.

Scratch it would seem as always tries to see the good in people, and I have to commend him for being better than I am and congratulating Dr. Peterson for trying.

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:47 am
by _The Nehor
Gadianton wrote:Scratch it would seem as always tries to see the good in people


Okay, that made me laugh so much I'm crying. Brilliant.

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:09 am
by _Daniel Peterson
Mister Scratch wrote:Who knew that, at last, DCP would admit that the FARMS Review suffers from a "tone" problem?

Who knew that Master Scartch would, as he so often does, misrepresent what I said?

I did!

I'm sure that was exactly what DCP was thinking when he published Bill Hamblin's "Quinn is a bad historian" article

I see nothing wrong with publishing negative reviews.

Mister Scratch wrote:Oh, really? And when can I expect my invitation to Cougareat?

When you cease your obsessive personal crusade against me, publicly apologize for your continual attempts to blacken my character, and reveal your identity. (Otherwise, how will I invite you and know how to meet you.) Oh yes, and when the rivers cease flowing and the grass no longer grows.

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:19 am
by _Daniel Peterson
Gadianton wrote:Skinny-L sure has set a great example of what doing apologetics humbly is all about.

I hate to have to remind you of the obvious yet again, but . . . well, Skinny-L is a small private list to which you have no real access. You haven't been invited. In other words, no matter how much Master Scartch assures you otherwise, you don't really know much of anything at all about Skinny-L.

Gadianton wrote:Did Dr. Peterson bring up Skinny-L in his presentation and share examples of the model tone found therin?

Skinny-L isn't public, isn't an apologetics venue, and was not relevant to my presentation. So no, I didn't refer to Skinny-L.

Gadianton wrote:Did he also mention that his fans cheer him on not as the humble statesman who returns cruelty with kindness, but as the great avenger? FatherK is a perfect example. Cheering on Dr. Peterson for his ability to roast the critics and make fun of them better than they make fun of him.

You'll have to direct me to the statements that GoodK's father has made on that topic.

I hate to have to remind you of the obvious, but . . . well, GoodK's father and I are friends. Unless you and Master Scartch have tapped our phones, hacked into our computers, and placed listening devices in our homes, offices, and cars, you have no real access to our conversations and exchanges. You haven't been included as our tag-along little bro. In other words, no matter how much Master Scartch assures you otherwise, you don't really know much of anything at all about what GoodK's father says to me.

Gadianton wrote:Scratch it would seem as always tries to see the good in people

!!!!!!!!

ROTFL!

!!!!!!!!!

Oh my. Oh my.

Now see what you've gone and made me do. I've got to get a rag and clean off my computer screen and my keyboard.

Now that was FUNNY!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:20 am
by _Jersey Girl
Daniel Peterson wrote:

When you cease your obsessive personal crusade against me, publicly apologize for your continual attempts to blacken my character, and reveal your identity. (Otherwise, how will I invite you and know how to meet you.) Oh yes, and when the rivers cease flowing and the grass no longer grows.





Image

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:25 am
by _mms
I am just wondering if DCP's latest avatar "avoid[s] the very appearance of evil." I mean, I like it and all . . .

Re: DCP's "Humble Apologetics"

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:10 am
by _moksha
Mister Scratch wrote: And when can I expect my invitation to Cougareat?



The Cougareat specializes in milk and cookies. Bring a hardy appetite.
by the way, it still would be wonderful if you and Dr. Peterson could share a plate together and come to a meeting of the minds.

When you cease your obsessive personal crusade against me, publicly apologize for your continual attempts to blacken my character, and reveal your identity. (Otherwise, how will I invite you and know how to meet you.) Oh yes, and when the rivers cease flowing and the grass no longer grows.


Such posturing is a bit of an impediment to a peace making effort. I think just meeting and chatting in a nonthreatening and anonymous manner would be its own reward.