Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

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_Rollo Tomasi
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Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

See link below for full press release. It was issued on Aug. 13, so if it's already been posted here I apologize for the repeat.

All in all, I find it very disheartening. Seems like fear is spewed throughout. Some examples:

In recent years in the United States and other countries, a movement has emerged to promote same-sex marriage as an inherent or constitutional right. This is not a small step, but a radical change: instead of society tolerating or accepting private, consensual sexual behavior between adults, advocates of same-sex marriage seek its official endorsement and recognition.

Court decisions in Massachusetts (2004) and California (2008) have allowed same-sex marriages. This trend constitutes a serious threat to marriage and family. The institution of marriage will be weakened, resulting in negative consequences for both adults and children.


Legalizing same-sex marriage will affect a wide spectrum of government activities and policies. Once a state government declares that same-sex unions are a civil right, those governments almost certainly will enforce a wide variety of other policies intended to ensure that there is no discrimination against same-sex couples. This may well place “church and state on a collision course.”

The prospect of same-sex marriage has already spawned legal collisions with the rights of free speech and of action based on religious beliefs. For example, advocates and government officials in certain states already are challenging the long-held right of religious adoption agencies to follow their religious beliefs and only place children in homes with both a mother and a father. As a result, Catholic Charities in Boston has stopped offering adoption services.

Other advocates of same-sex marriage are suggesting that tax exemptions and benefits be withdrawn from any religious organization that does not embrace same-sex unions. Public accommodation laws are already being used as leverage in an attempt to force religious organizations to allow marriage celebrations or receptions in religious facilities that are otherwise open to the public. Accrediting organizations in some instances are asserting pressure on religious schools and universities to provide married housing for same-sex couples. Student religious organizations are being told by some universities that they may lose their campus recognition and benefits if they exclude same-sex couples from club membership.

Many of these examples have already become the legal reality in several nations of the European Union, and the European Parliament has recommended that laws guaranteeing and protecting the rights of same-sex couples be made uniform across the EU. Thus, if same-sex marriage becomes a recognized civil right, there will be substantial conflicts with religious freedom. And in some important areas, religious freedom may be diminished.


While it may be true that allowing single-sex unions will not immediately and directly affect all existing marriages, the real question is how it will affect society as a whole over time, including the rising generation and future generations. The experience of the few European countries that already have legalized same-sex marriage suggests that any dilution of the traditional definition of marriage will further erode the already weakened stability of marriages and family generally. Adopting same-sex marriage compromises the traditional concept of marriage, with harmful consequences for society.


By definition, all same-sex unions are infertile, and two individuals of the same gender, whatever their affections, can never form a marriage devoted to raising their own mutual offspring.


Traditional marriage provides a solid and well-established social identity to children. It increases the likelihood that they will be able to form a clear gender identity, with sexuality closely linked to both love and procreation. By contrast, the legalization of same-sex marriage likely will erode the social identity, gender development, and moral character of children. Is it really wise for society to pursue such a radical experiment without taking into account its long-term consequences for children?


As just one example of how children will be adversely affected, the establishment of same-sex marriage as a civil right will inevitably require mandatory changes in school curricula. When the state says that same-sex unions are equivalent to heterosexual marriages, the curriculum of public schools will have to support this claim. Beginning with elementary school, children will be taught that marriage can be defined as a relation between any two adults and that consensual sexual relations are morally neutral. Classroom instruction on sex education in secondary schools can be expected to equate homosexual intimacy with heterosexual relations. These developments will create serious clashes between the agenda of the secular school system and the right of parents to teach their children traditional standards of morality.


http://newsroom.LDS.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... f-marriage
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Buckeye
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Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _Buckeye »

Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of this recent statement. Its a good resource for those of us tyring to explain and defend that church's stance.
And inasmuch as my people shall assemble themselves at the Ohio, I have kept in store a blessing such as is not known among the children of men, and it shall be poured forth upon their heads. And from thence men shall go forth into all nations.

Doctrine & Covenants 39:15.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _Some Schmo »

Legalizing same-sex marriage will affect a wide spectrum of government activities and policies. Once a state government declares that same-sex unions are a civil right, those governments almost certainly will enforce a wide variety of other policies intended to ensure that there is no discrimination against same-sex couples.

Yes, heaven forbid we take away a religious person's right to discriminate against homosexuals!

Morons...

Reading this kind of crap does nothing to make me sympathize with "religious freedom" and just makes me want to tell them where to shove their idiotic, unsupportable beliefs.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Ray A

Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _Ray A »

I wouldn't have expected any other statement from the Church, which is essentially trying to protect its beliefs. Some of it is well-argued, such as potential compromises having to be made by religious institutions, and Mormons are not without the support of Catholics.

The biggest problem I see is the assumption/belief that:

The Proclamation also teaches, “Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.”


This is a teaching based on faith with no scientific support, yet it's the crux of the whole statement. This is where the religious freedom issue comes in.

The Universal Declaration on Human Rights is also quoted, but a couple of things to note here. Some Islamic countries have objected to the UN Declaration, arguing that it prevents full Islamic law being imposed. Obviously, some religions will have a problem with the UN declaration.

The Church statement quotes:

As the Universal Declaration of Human Rights affirms, “The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society.” [5]


But moves have been underway for more than a decade to amend the UN Declaration to include further rights to Gays and Lesbians. (It must be remembered that this statement was issued in 1948, and would not have included this):

“COC Netherlands is delighted about obtaining consultative status with the UN,” said Björn van Roozendaal, COC international advocacy officer. “It means we can join the efforts at the UN to address human rights violations against people with an alternative sexual orientation or gender identity.....”

“ECOSOC has recognized the place of lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people in the work of the United Nations,” said John Fisher from ARC International, which supported the groups’ advocacy efforts. “In this 60th anniversary year of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it is particularly important to affirm the core principle that all human beings are entitled to the full enjoyment of all human rights, without discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Yesterday’s vote sends a clear message that discrimination has no place in the UN system, and that sexual orientation and gender identity issues can, and must, be addressed.”



http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/07/23/ ... 35_txt.htm
_The Nehor
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Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _The Nehor »

Some Schmo wrote:Reading this kind of crap does nothing to make me sympathize with "religious freedom" and just makes me want to tell them where to shove their idiotic, unsupportable beliefs.


Then you understand how we feel when people try to make us sympathize with sexual perverts and we want to tell them where to shove their antisocial, unsupportable understanding of sexuality.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_TAK
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Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _TAK »

The Nehor wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:Reading this kind of crap does nothing to make me sympathize with "religious freedom" and just makes me want to tell them where to shove their idiotic, unsupportable beliefs.


Then you understand how we feel when people try to make us sympathize with sexual perverts and we want to tell them where to shove their antisocial, unsupportable understanding of sexuality.


So homosexuals are perverts? Nice Ad Hom..
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


_________________
_Ray A

Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _Ray A »

TAK wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
Then you understand how we feel when people try to make us sympathize with sexual perverts and we want to tell them where to shove their antisocial, unsupportable understanding of sexuality.


So homosexuals are perverts? Nice Ad Hom..


Note the Church's official statement:

The Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility towards homosexual men and women. Protecting marriage between a man and a woman does not affect Church members’ Christian obligations of love, kindness and humanity toward all people.
_TAK
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Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _TAK »

You just gotta love the irony.
Church has no problem judging others and legislate morality - but 100 years ago when others were judging the Church for Polygamy that was a massive invasion all kinds of their rights.
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


_________________
_The Nehor
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Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _The Nehor »

TAK wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
Then you understand how we feel when people try to make us sympathize with sexual perverts and we want to tell them where to shove their antisocial, unsupportable understanding of sexuality.


So homosexuals are perverts? Nice Ad Hom..


Yes and it wasn't meant as an ad hom, just a statement.

Let's have a look see real quick:

1. to affect with perversion.
2. to lead astray morally.
3. to turn away from the right course.
4. to lead into mental error or false judgment.
5. to turn to an improper use; misapply.
6. to misconstrue or misinterpret, esp. deliberately; distort: to pervert someone's statement.
7. to bring to a less excellent state; vitiate; debase.
8. Pathology. to change to what is unnatural or abnormal.
9. to convert or persuade to a religious belief regarded as false or wrong.
–noun
10. a person who practices sexual perversion.
11. Pathology. a person affected with perversion.
12. a person who has been perverted, esp. to a religious belief regarded as erroneous.


Yep, fits a lot of those.

Would the word deviant be less offensive?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_The Nehor
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Re: Latest Church 'statement' on gay marriage ....

Post by _The Nehor »

TAK wrote:You just gotta love the irony.
Church has no problem judging others and legislate morality - but 100 years ago when others were judging the Church for Polygamy that was a massive invasion all kinds of their rights.


One was an extension of marriage, the other is the complete alteration of it.

Incidentally, if they are the same why the complete lack of symmetry? People still scream about polygamy being evil while supporting this....so is the comparison apples to apple or apples to oranges?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
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