Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

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_Mister Scratch
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Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Mister Scratch »

This will, for now, be the last entry in my commentary on the "Archive of Agent S." Once again, to my knowledge, this material has never before been available on the Internet. The .pdfs will be up on Bond...James Bond's weblog shortly.

As you will notice, much of the material pertains to the deeply problematic LDS intellectual B.H. Roberts, who could very possibly be described as the first "Internet Mormon." Of special interest will be the "Exhibit 1-6" .pdf, which features Roberts's actual letter to President Grant. In it, he writes of discussing "difficulties" and "problems" with the Brethren. When Elder Lyman asks him if the new "difficulties" he wishes to discuss will make things worse for the Brethren, and Roberts replies in the affirmative, Lyman dismisses all of it, stating that, "I do not know why we should consider them." In other words: the best way to handle criticism of the Book of Mormon is to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist.

But I got the biggest chuckle out of John Welch's ridiculous, utterly embarrassing, "Comments on Sterling McMurrin's Biographical Essay." Have DCP, Bill Hamblin, Lou Midgley, Gary Novak and other notable apologists modeled their style and technique after Welch? It seems to me that they have.

At base, Welch's diatribe (which is very oddly framed in such a way that Welch imagines himself as an Oxford U. editor) is one ad hominem attack after the next:

This sounds like something only a moral philosopher would say. What is McMurrin's background anyway?
(1)

I wonder if this McMurrin fellow has ever had a course in logic.
(4)

This is beginning to smell rather bad
(5)

Or, it is steeped in a peculiarly Mopologetic form of paranoia:

I get worried enough about introductions which seem to have hidden agendas. In this instance my concerns are even greater since it is obvious that McMurrin's agenda is not even thinly camouflaged.
(2)

This may be of some interest to those examining the "black/white" thinking of apologists:

To whom is scriptural literalism intellectually frustrating?
(3)

In short, this is among the worst writings FARMS has ever produced.

Also among these materials is Roberts's letter to his daughter, Elizabeth. Readers can compare the full text of the letter with the decontextualized quotes used by Truman Madsen in Part III of "Did B.H. Roberts Lose Faith in the Book of Mormon"? Also intriguing in the letter is Roberts's odd mention of correcting Pres. Grant about a "mistake" concerning cement.

Readers might also find interesting Brigham Madsen's Dialogue article, which may shed some light on why apologists are so sensitive to Roberts and his work:

[Wesley P.] Lloyd recorded Roberts's remembrance of the reaction of church leaders to his ["Difficulties"] presentation, "In answer, they merely one by one stood up and bore testimony to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. George Albert Smith, in tears, testified that his faith in the Book of Mormon had not been shaken by the question."
(80)

Well, I guess we can assume that this is the typical way that General Authorities and apologists secretly deal with Book of Mormon criticism: by emotionally testifying to the book's truthfulness, and crying.

The other materials also up for viewing include stuff from Oaks, Benson, and Quinn, along with stuff culled from Roberts's papers. Probably this will be familiar to some people, and brand new to others. It is intriguing regardless.

Overall, all of the material from the "Archive of Agent S" represents a fascinating set of juxtapositions. It presents a means for inspecting the evolution of LDS apologetics, and exposes many of its frailties. It exposes places where apologists feel most vulnerable, and demonstrates areas in which they've been less than honest.

Anyways, a final "shout out" to Agent S, and to Bond...James Bond. Thank you for this invaluable look into apologetic history.
_Gadianton
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Gadianton »

Welch wrote:To whom is scriptural literalism intellectually frustrating?


LOL! Indeed, the origins of the "belligerants" have been uncovered.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:
Welch wrote:To whom is scriptural literalism intellectually frustrating?


LOL! Indeed, the origins of the "belligerants" have been uncovered.


I wonder if Midgley, DCP, and other apologists wept as Pres. Smith did when they put their faith under the ultimate and rigorous strain of skepticism and intellectual inquiry?
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Wow. My hands are trembling. My lips are quivering. Tears are rolling down my cheeks.

Astonishing! Breathtaking! Gripping!

Truly, a watershed moment in the history of Mopologetics.
_solomarineris
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _solomarineris »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Truly, a watershed moment in the history of Mopologetics.

Did you watch the episode " I Borg?"
_Bond James Bond
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Wow. My hands are trembling. My lips are quivering. Tears are rolling down my cheeks.

Astonishing! Breathtaking! Gripping!

Truly, a watershed moment in the history of Mopologetics.


Hi there, Dan. I want to ask you a serious question: Have you ever cried after encountering tough criticism of the Church? Have you known any of your fellow apologists to cry on such an occasion? I have to tell you, rumor has it that there is a video of you up on YouTube, in which you are exhorting members of the Church to fight back against Internet critics, and that in the film, you are close to tears.

Is this true?
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Mister Scratch wrote:Have you ever cried after encountering tough criticism of the Church?

No.

Mister Scratch wrote:Have you known any of your fellow apologists to cry on such an occasion?

No.

Mister Scratch wrote:I have to tell you, rumor has it that there is a video of you up on YouTube, in which you are exhorting members of the Church to fight back against Internet critics, and that in the film, you are close to tears.

Is this true?

No.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Scratch wrote:rumor has it


What, again? No surprises there.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_harmony
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Re: Part 3: An Early Lesson in FARMS Polemics

Post by _harmony »

Daniel Peterson wrote:No.


Well, shoot. There goes the visual of you laughing so hard, tears were running down your cheeks.

Dang it.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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