DiscussMormonism.com

Schmo,

I'm just going to go through your post and see if anything I say makes sense to you. Ha!

I don't have my regular keyboard attached to my laptop, and I hate typing on this little keyboard, so I'll make this brief for now.

You suffer from manly hands, I assume.

So it turns out this really is just a difference in terminology.

It could be a difference in terminology, I'm not sure I agree with that though. Let me keep going.

I mean, much of what you said applies to me (aside from the god stuff) with respect to what I know and don't know. I just wouldn't use the word faith in any of that to describe how I handle the gaps in my knowledge. It's just too irrational for me.

Yes, but I was rephrasing the thoughts of a God believer and in that case, I do think the word "faith" is appropriate to that context.

I recognize my ignorance and let go of the fact that ignorance is an inevitable fact of everyone's life. I don’t know everything. Nobody does (as much as some pretend to). Big deal, right? That's been my experience. It's based on evidence. No faith is required.

Again, we're talking about a God believer here. A God believer also relies on perceived evidences however, those circumstances are always subjective.

If anything, I believe this way of thinking makes a person more open to revising and making distinctions about the things they think they already do know, because they don't put some imaginary restraint on their "knowledge", claiming they need “faith” in it.

I think Kerry is a good example (you happy getting all this "press", Shirts? :-) of one who revises his thinking.

Having faith sounds like close-mindedness to me, and motivated by simple comfort.

Some faith is certainly comfort based. I agree with that however, we were talking about Kerry's approaches. I think Kerry is as non-closeminded as a God believer comes. (More press for Shirts. I oughtta type in the link to his stuff and then he can pay me commission for referrals)

There's little doubt that "knowledge" is illusory and fleeting. Holding on to what you think you know can lead to the heights of arrogance (as we regularly see on this board, for instance), especially observable when someone is so wacky and "out there."

I don't know who you think is wacky and "out there", so I can't say. If it's Kerry, whose comments we are discussing, he's definitely not holding on to what he thinks he knows in the sense that he wouldn't be open to revising it at some point. Well, I say that however, I don't know if he'd say that. It's based on my observations of him.

I fail to see the benefit or any place for "faith" in this equation. All I see is potential for unnecessary embarrassment.

The only way I can think of to respond to the above is to say that there are people in this world who are confident enough to risk embarrassment.

And some of them are from Jersey.
:-)

Schmo,

I have no idea how in the hell this got posted as a new topic.

See? Not afraid to risk embarrassment!

Jersey Girl

Heh, no worries about the new thread. I appreciate your thoughts.

Actually, I was thinking more generally about the thoughts on faith themselves rather than Kerry's specific views. I believe it's a given that if one is to believe in a god, faith is required (those who say they "know" there's a god would be a good example of those I consider "wacky and out there").

I really just think that some people say faith when what they really mean is trust, or a belief in the strictly unknowable based on repetitive past experience (eg. if I drive my car, I trust I’ll survive because people generally keep to their side of the road. I don’t know they will, but I trust they will).

To me, faith (in what I consider to be the true sense of the word) is belief for reasons that have little to do with past direct experience, or misinterpretation of their experience. In other words, faith is irrational, and is highly (dangerously, even) over-valued. And the only way to explain why people think it is valuable is that it offers them comfort, much like a placebo. As I get older, I become less critical of that position, unless it's coupled with arrogance.