I met DCP this evening
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:14 am
About a week ago I got an email from the Arizona chapter of BYU Alumni, advertising a lecture to be given this evening by Daniel Peterson about Islam and the LDS. I thought it would be interesting to hear what he had to say, and to see him in person and speak to him afterward, so I went.
It was held at the LDS institute building at ASU. I imagined it would be a lecture in a classroom or something like that, so I wore my khaki shorts, floral pattern pullover shirt, and Birkenstocks. Turns out it was in Fireside format, held in the chapel, and everyone else was dressed as if going to church. Oops. I had a little chuckle to myself thinking that DCP might believe that my being dressed too casually was a form of protest or something, but actually I just didn't know. Oh well.
DCP gave a pretty basic overview of Islam. It was a very basic overview, and anyone who knows much about Islam would probably be disappointed he didn't say more, but I realized, especially after his talk when he took some questions, that a lot of people in the audience didn't know much about Islam, so that for them, at least, the depth to which he went was probably just about right. DCP has done this before, and I trust he knows what he's doing.
He shared a lot of anecdotes. Some were humorous, some were meant to be inspiring (and I'm sure many in the audience felt inspired), but they were pretty much all interesting. He's a good speaker, and he's able to hold one's attention. There might well have been folks in the audience who were bored, and who felt it went on too long, but I wasn't one of them. I could have sat there for another couple of hours if he'd been so inclined. I thought it was an interesting presentation, overall.
He talked about the Islamic writings translation project, and told some anecdotes that show that the project has given the church more visibility within the muslim world than one might have expected. That's good for him - it seems like he's doing a good job with that, and I have no problem with it.
One guy asked Daniel if Mohammed were a liar, crazy, or a true Prophet. He said that pretty much nobody in the scholarly world now thinks that Mohammed was a liar. As to whether Mohammed was crazy or a true Prophet, Daniel replied that he doesn't know whether Mohammed was a real prophet or not. He said that it's possible God acted through Mohammed, and brought up the popular Mormon belief that folks like Martin Luther had received of God's inspiration. He mentioned that some verses in the Quran, which deny the divinity of Jesus, obviously would not have been the words of a true prophet of God, but allowed that it's possible those particular things might have been additions by others after Mohammed's death. In the end he was fairly ambiguous about it.
I thought, within the context of people who believe in God, that that was a reasonable answer, but I'm sure it would not have satisfied everybody in the chapel. Most Mormons are steeped in the "not invented here" syndrome that pretty much assumes all other churches and religions outside of Mormonism are all wrong (think First Vision, all others being abominations, etc.), and I'll bet that no matter how well Daniel put it, not all members would accept the idea that Mohammed might actually have been a real prophet of God.
After he'd answered questions for a while, he bore a very short testimony and we ended with a hymn and prayer.
A gaggle of fans and old friends and people whom he'd met before formed up around the stand to talk with him. I went up and hung back and listened to them. I didn't intend to put DCP in the awkward position of me introducing myself, and potentially referencing this board or the other board, in front of the TBMs, so I waited until they were all done and had left before I introduced myself to him. I gave him a small gift, discussed it with him for a little while (it was a book, unrelated to religion and/or Mormonism). It would have been really interesting (for me at least) to have been able to talk with him for a long time, but I knew that wasn't what he was there for, and so I held back. After a few minutes the guy with the keys showed up and we took the hint.
One thing we talked about was the idea that Islam is not this monolithic entity of people who are all the same, think the same, act the same, etc. There are all kinds of muslims, and most people don't seem to understand that. I could relate. I mentioned to Daniel, and I hope he finds a way to weave this into his discussions and interactions with those of us in the apostate community, that we apostates aren't a monolithic entity either. We don't all act the same, believe the same, etc., and are individuals. This is true of almost every category we put people into, whether nationality, religion, race, etc.
Anyhow, I enjoyed the presentation, and I'm glad I got a chance to go up and introduce myself to him. I'm not a DCP hater, and although I don't believe in the same things he believes in, I recognize that he's a good guy, and he does what he does in terms of apologetics because he believes the church to be true. I still have bones to pick with him, such as the acid tone of some of the FARMS reviews of books not friendly to the church, but that doesn't make him into a monster, either.
One more little thing I thought worth mentioning. One of the fans who went up to talk to him after the presentation brought up Rodney Meldrum. He related that one of his friends had been taught in an Institute class that the Book of Mormon took place in Michigan, based on his institute teacher using Meldrum's stuff. The fan asked DCP what FARMS thought of it. DCP was polite, and said that he wasn't a fan of Meldrum's stuff, and that eventually FARMS would have to say something about it, and it was likely to be negative. Daniel was fairly careful in the way he phrased this, and in this context (amongst a body of chapel Mormons) I thought the way he handled it was probably correct - it simply wouldn't do to lash out at Meldrum in a group of the faithful, but still, he doesn't agree with Meldrum, and did share that with the guy.
I have to say I was sooooo tempted, when this fan brought up Meldrum and the Institute teacher, to whisper "FARMS is getting owned by a chapel Mormon!" to Daniel, but I bit my tongue and waited to mention it until everyone else was gone.
Anyhow, I am glad I took the time to drive up to ASU and attend this. DCP did a good job, and was polite to me in our conversation afterwards. I've already seen his picture many times, and heard his voice, but now he's had a chance to meet me and spend a few minutes chatting with me, which I think is always a good thing. I think that if most people who oppose each other on message boards got to meet, it must undoubtedly reduce the level of tension and whatnot.
It was held at the LDS institute building at ASU. I imagined it would be a lecture in a classroom or something like that, so I wore my khaki shorts, floral pattern pullover shirt, and Birkenstocks. Turns out it was in Fireside format, held in the chapel, and everyone else was dressed as if going to church. Oops. I had a little chuckle to myself thinking that DCP might believe that my being dressed too casually was a form of protest or something, but actually I just didn't know. Oh well.
DCP gave a pretty basic overview of Islam. It was a very basic overview, and anyone who knows much about Islam would probably be disappointed he didn't say more, but I realized, especially after his talk when he took some questions, that a lot of people in the audience didn't know much about Islam, so that for them, at least, the depth to which he went was probably just about right. DCP has done this before, and I trust he knows what he's doing.
He shared a lot of anecdotes. Some were humorous, some were meant to be inspiring (and I'm sure many in the audience felt inspired), but they were pretty much all interesting. He's a good speaker, and he's able to hold one's attention. There might well have been folks in the audience who were bored, and who felt it went on too long, but I wasn't one of them. I could have sat there for another couple of hours if he'd been so inclined. I thought it was an interesting presentation, overall.
He talked about the Islamic writings translation project, and told some anecdotes that show that the project has given the church more visibility within the muslim world than one might have expected. That's good for him - it seems like he's doing a good job with that, and I have no problem with it.
One guy asked Daniel if Mohammed were a liar, crazy, or a true Prophet. He said that pretty much nobody in the scholarly world now thinks that Mohammed was a liar. As to whether Mohammed was crazy or a true Prophet, Daniel replied that he doesn't know whether Mohammed was a real prophet or not. He said that it's possible God acted through Mohammed, and brought up the popular Mormon belief that folks like Martin Luther had received of God's inspiration. He mentioned that some verses in the Quran, which deny the divinity of Jesus, obviously would not have been the words of a true prophet of God, but allowed that it's possible those particular things might have been additions by others after Mohammed's death. In the end he was fairly ambiguous about it.
I thought, within the context of people who believe in God, that that was a reasonable answer, but I'm sure it would not have satisfied everybody in the chapel. Most Mormons are steeped in the "not invented here" syndrome that pretty much assumes all other churches and religions outside of Mormonism are all wrong (think First Vision, all others being abominations, etc.), and I'll bet that no matter how well Daniel put it, not all members would accept the idea that Mohammed might actually have been a real prophet of God.
After he'd answered questions for a while, he bore a very short testimony and we ended with a hymn and prayer.
A gaggle of fans and old friends and people whom he'd met before formed up around the stand to talk with him. I went up and hung back and listened to them. I didn't intend to put DCP in the awkward position of me introducing myself, and potentially referencing this board or the other board, in front of the TBMs, so I waited until they were all done and had left before I introduced myself to him. I gave him a small gift, discussed it with him for a little while (it was a book, unrelated to religion and/or Mormonism). It would have been really interesting (for me at least) to have been able to talk with him for a long time, but I knew that wasn't what he was there for, and so I held back. After a few minutes the guy with the keys showed up and we took the hint.
One thing we talked about was the idea that Islam is not this monolithic entity of people who are all the same, think the same, act the same, etc. There are all kinds of muslims, and most people don't seem to understand that. I could relate. I mentioned to Daniel, and I hope he finds a way to weave this into his discussions and interactions with those of us in the apostate community, that we apostates aren't a monolithic entity either. We don't all act the same, believe the same, etc., and are individuals. This is true of almost every category we put people into, whether nationality, religion, race, etc.
Anyhow, I enjoyed the presentation, and I'm glad I got a chance to go up and introduce myself to him. I'm not a DCP hater, and although I don't believe in the same things he believes in, I recognize that he's a good guy, and he does what he does in terms of apologetics because he believes the church to be true. I still have bones to pick with him, such as the acid tone of some of the FARMS reviews of books not friendly to the church, but that doesn't make him into a monster, either.
One more little thing I thought worth mentioning. One of the fans who went up to talk to him after the presentation brought up Rodney Meldrum. He related that one of his friends had been taught in an Institute class that the Book of Mormon took place in Michigan, based on his institute teacher using Meldrum's stuff. The fan asked DCP what FARMS thought of it. DCP was polite, and said that he wasn't a fan of Meldrum's stuff, and that eventually FARMS would have to say something about it, and it was likely to be negative. Daniel was fairly careful in the way he phrased this, and in this context (amongst a body of chapel Mormons) I thought the way he handled it was probably correct - it simply wouldn't do to lash out at Meldrum in a group of the faithful, but still, he doesn't agree with Meldrum, and did share that with the guy.
I have to say I was sooooo tempted, when this fan brought up Meldrum and the Institute teacher, to whisper "FARMS is getting owned by a chapel Mormon!" to Daniel, but I bit my tongue and waited to mention it until everyone else was gone.
Anyhow, I am glad I took the time to drive up to ASU and attend this. DCP did a good job, and was polite to me in our conversation afterwards. I've already seen his picture many times, and heard his voice, but now he's had a chance to meet me and spend a few minutes chatting with me, which I think is always a good thing. I think that if most people who oppose each other on message boards got to meet, it must undoubtedly reduce the level of tension and whatnot.