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This doesn't happen very often. I actually thought of a legitimate case against SSM.

Any employee that works for BYU must maintain a set of standards. BYU currently allows gay individuals to work there as long as they adhere to the honor code.

If SSM becomes legal, can a married gay couple now perform sexual acts without breaking the honor code? After all, they are married.

BYU is not the church. It is under more government regulations than the church. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that BYU will be forced by the government to accept gay marriages as they would any other marriage. Therefore, wouldn't they be discriminating if they fire a married gay individual for performing sex acts? Something the church is strongly against?

Thoughts?

Scottie wrote:BYU is not the church. It is under more government regulations than the church. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that BYU will be forced by the government to accept gay marriages as they would any other marriage

Okay, I think you are wrong. I think the Mormons for Prop 8 would like you to be right, though.

BYU is not the church, and yet it has a more stringent and enforced set of "honor" standards than the actual church. You can't wear shorts at BYU. Why doesn't the federal government force them to admit normal American fashion values on campus? So I don't think it will be any different with gay sex; it's not a "bounds of marriage" issue but a basic morality issue.

I don't think it works. It's not just a prohibition on sex outside of marriage - BYU prohibits any homosexual behavior (in fact, kissing or holding hands is not allowed, even though unmarried heterosexuals can do it).

skippy the dead wrote:I don't think it works. It's not just a prohibition on sex outside of marriage - BYU prohibits any homosexual behavior (in fact, kissing or holding hands is not allowed, even though unmarried heterosexuals can do it).

Right, but if 2 gays were to marry, then how can BYU say they are not allowed to show affection without getting into hot water with the government? Wouldn't this be a gross violation of equal rights?

As it is right now, gay actions are not protected so BYU can get away with it. Defining marriage would, in essence, protect them.

Scottie wrote:Right, but if 2 gays were to marry, then how can BYU say they are not allowed to show affection without getting into hot water with the government? Wouldn't this be a gross violation of equal rights?

As it is right now, gay actions are not protected so BYU can get away with it. Defining marriage would, in essence, protect them.

I think that's too far of a reach. Gay sex is (mostly) legal in most states; I don't think marriage would have anything to do with it.

More importantly, right now there are 3 states and a nearby country that permit same sex marriage, and we're not seeing any new issues as you've described. If one of those three states continues to allow the marriages (California), I don't see what the big deal is.

But back to your theory. I still feel pretty confident that BYU can still prohibit homosexual conduct, with or without marriage. As I said, right now there's a difference in how homosexuals and heterosexuals are treated - gays can't kiss or hold hands with members of the same sex; straights can. Marriage is not even a part of that equation.

And bear in mind, that with the exception of a few states, homosexuals are not a protected class - certainly not federally and definitely not in Utah. Allowing same sex marriage will not suddenly confer protected class status on homosexuals.

This is one of Rollo's favorite arguments. It is highly disingenuous.

Just because abortion and fornication are legal doesn't mean one can do them and stay in BYU or in good standing in the Church.

It is legal to openly criticize the brethren and state apostate views, but that won't let you into BYU or let you stay or graduate.



VOTE YES on PROP 8.

Scottie wrote:

skippy the dead wrote:I don't think it works. It's not just a prohibition on sex outside of marriage - BYU prohibits any homosexual behavior (in fact, kissing or holding hands is not allowed, even though unmarried heterosexuals can do it).

Right, but if 2 gays were to marry, then how can BYU say they are not allowed to show affection without getting into hot water with the government? Wouldn't this be a gross violation of equal rights?

As it is right now, gay actions are not protected so BYU can get away with it. Defining marriage would, in essence, protect them.

Doesn't BYU only employ Mormons? And wouldn't practicing homosexuals find themselves excommunicated?

CaliforniaKid wrote:
Doesn't BYU only employ Mormons?

Nope. It hires heathens, too, so long as they agree to comport themselves according to the school's standards.

CaliforniaKid wrote:And wouldn't practicing homosexuals find themselves excommunicated?

Practicing ones, perhaps (if the church finds it worth its while). Celibate homosexuals are OK (when I was in law school there was a prominent story about a veil worker at the Salt Lake Temple who was gay, but celibate - this was considered highly newsworthy).

Scottie wrote:This doesn't happen very often. I actually thought of a legitimate case against SSM.

Any employee that works for BYU must maintain a set of standards. BYU currently allows gay individuals to work there as long as they adhere to the honor code.

If SSM becomes legal, can a married gay couple now perform sexual acts without breaking the honor code? After all, they are married.

BYU is not the church. It is under more government regulations than the church. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that BYU will be forced by the government to accept gay marriages as they would any other marriage. Therefore, wouldn't they be discriminating if they fire a married gay individual for performing sex acts? Something the church is strongly against?

Thoughts?

Whether you're gay or not, most employees will not allow you to perform sexual acts. You can still get fired, and BYU would be able to fire employees for performing gay sex acts, just as they would fire someone for performing non-gay sexual acts. I don't work for BYU, and I would get fired if I performed sex acts.

SatanWasSetUp wrote:Whether you're gay or not, most employees will not allow you to perform sexual acts. You can still get fired, and BYU would be able to fire employees for performing gay sex acts, just as they would fire someone for performing non-gay sexual acts. I don't work for BYU, and I would get fired if I performed sex acts.

Not AT BYU. Sex acts in the privacy of your own bedroom!!