DiscussMormonism.com

Caution, swearing:

On the anniversary of the day the Missouri Govt finally had enough, I ask a simple question: Why is there no talk of the Mormons own extermination order against the non Mormon citizens of Missouri?

Lets see...what Gem of the GOOD history...you know, the stuff that if encountered can not be explained away by the staunchest of TBM without resorting to the "violence is the answer and acting first was the only thing God told us to do" defense. This of course is indefensible and is strong evidence of the fallacious history Mormonism has constructed in and of itself.

I pity the community shell shocked from the base level of this religious collective thrust on their section of expanding frontier. Those block voting thugs from New York told a bunch of their converts to come to Missouri where Gods Prophet would take their money, sleep with their daughter and become enslaved to a power structure bought and paid for by your own stupidity.

How about the letters sent to those who saw Joseph Smith for what he is? A charlatan using influence and confidence to control physical enforcement, taxes/tithes and Usury. All under false pretenses and spun with a millennial spirit that gave little incentive to keep material goods under ones care. No, sell off your families cottage and give the money to the missionaries. They will take you away from this blighted land and take you to America, where there is always enough food to eat during the winter and where you would be indebted to the service of the real Master Mahan, Joseph Smith.

Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, William W. Phelps, and Lyman E. Johnson recieved the following from Sidney Rigdon, a Mormon leader at the time:

you shall have three days after you receive this communication to you, including twenty-four hours in each day, for you to depart with your families peaceably; which you may do undisturbed by any person; but in that time, if you do not depart, we will use the means in our power to cause you to depart; for go you shall.[5]

Joseph Smith is the definition of a douchebag. A bully. Someone who threatens violence if his demands are not met. I see him as a thug with many thug friends. Hes the guy that "F"s your sister, the douche who angles into all your deals and seems to get a great deal of your money yet you believe somehow you are dependent on this. You are his slave. Today you are his indentured servant signed away as property of a corporation that is no more of a church than sears, GM or Hilton. You are bought and paid for by your own ignorance or the stupidity and gullibility of your ancestors.

So today I try to strike home this sentiment, telling my ancestors to go “F” themselves.

Mormonism is franchised douchebaggery. Screw you all for supporting it who do.

So today I try to strike home this sentiment, telling my ancestors to go f*** themselves.

Mormonism is franchised douchebaggery. f*** you all for supporting it who do.

If you can't be big, don't belittle.

bcspace wrote:

So today I try to strike home this sentiment, telling my ancestors to go f*** themselves.

Mormonism is franchised douchebaggery. f*** you all for supporting it who do.

If you can't be big, don't belittle.

BC, you're such a punster.

Mercury wrote: Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, William W. Phelps, and Lyman E. Johnson recieved the following from Sidney Rigdon, a Mormon leader at the time:

you shall have three days after you receive this communication to you, including twenty-four hours in each day, for you to depart with your families peaceably; which you may do undisturbed by any person; but in that time, if you do not depart, we will use the means in our power to cause you to depart; for go you shall.[5]

What is the context of this letter? And where did you find it?

Oliver and these other guys were part of the 8 witnesses, weren't they? What brought this on? What gave Sidney (and Joseph) the idea that they actually had this kind of power?

harmony wrote:What is the context of this letter? And where did you find it?

The context of the letter is this: It was delivered soon after Rigdon made his infamous "Salt Sermon" in Missouri. For more details, see this page, scrolling down to page 22.

Oliver and these other guys were part of the 8 witnesses, weren't they?

Some were; some weren't.

What brought this on?

The Kirtland Bank fiasco had effectively split the church into two parties: Those that still thought the leaders could do no wrong, and those who learned the leaders weren't infallible after all. The named parties were members of the latter group who wouldn't keep their mouths shut.

What gave Sidney (and Joseph) the idea that they actually had this kind of power?

C'mon, harmony. You know the answer to this question just as well as I do. The concept of not having that kind of power was utterly alien to them.

I don't know much about the Kirtland period. I'm not familiar with the Salt Serman either. Could you give me the Reader's Digest version, in your own words of course.

I think Merc is indulging in a bit of hyperbole. A request to move out of the town (I'm assuming these men all consecrated everything to the church and thus were penniless after the failure of the bank) is far different from a shoot on sight order.

We see the same stupidity now, in that we trust our leaders entirely too much, both spiritual and secular.

The Kirtland Bank fiasco had effectively split the church into two parties: Those that still thought the leaders could do no wrong, and those who learned the leaders weren't infallible after all. The named parties were members of the latter group who wouldn't keep their mouths shut.

Actually the issues surrounding Cowdry and Whitmer in Missouri and there disaffection that is also tied to this threat had little to do with the Kirtland Saftery Society debacle. It had to do with power and leadership in Missouri, resentment on Whitmer's and Cowsry's part that the Church leadership had remained in Kirtland for so long and while seemingly ingoring Missouri Kirtland leaders still wanted to rule with a heavy hand. At the top of the list was the attempt by Smith and Rigdon to forbid Cowdry, Witmer and others from selling land they had owned in Jackson County. I think Rigdon also viewed these two early leaders as threats to his ascension to power and fueled the fire. Unfortunately Joseph was often weak when it came to latching on to men that seemed to have intellect and leadership ability. It proved a major cause of his downfall.

harmony wrote:I don't know much about the Kirtland period. I'm not familiar with the Salt Serman either. Could you give me the Reader's Digest version, in your own words of course.

I think Merc is indulging in a bit of hyperbole. A request to move out of the town (I'm assuming these men all consecrated everything to the church and thus were penniless after the failure of the bank) is far different from a shoot on sight order.

We see the same stupidity now, in that we trust our leaders entirely too much, both spiritual and secular.

The Salt Sermon was given by Sydney Rigdon at the height of the potential tinder box relations between the Mormons and the other Missourians. In it he stated that the enemies of the Church were like salt that had lost its savor and thus should be trodden into the ground. He was also referencing some the members of the Church we are discussing here.

harmony wrote:I don't know much about the Kirtland period. I'm not familiar with the Salt Serman either. Could you give me the Reader's Digest version, in your own words of course.

These aren't my own words, but they're better. From Wikipedia:

"According to Rigdon, the dissenters were like the 'salt' spoken of by Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew (part of the metaphors of Salt and Light in the Sermon on the Mount): 'If the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.' Two days after Rigdon preached the Salt Sermon, eighty Latter-day Saints signed a statement (the so-called Danite Manifesto) warning the dissenters to 'depart, or a more fatal calamity shall befall you.'"

I think Merc is indulging in a bit of hyperbole. A request to move out of the town (I'm assuming these men all consecrated everything to the church and thus were penniless after the failure of the bank) is far different from a shoot on sight order.

The word "fatal" in the phrase "fatal calamity" implies death. All the addressees interpreted it that way, too. In other words, those physically present at the time and place ALL knew that they would be killed unless they left town.

We see the same stupidity now, in that we trust our leaders entirely too much, both spiritual and secular.

Methinks that trusting one's leaders when they deliver death threats is nevertheless the prudent course of action.