DiscussMormonism.com

During the election a lot of charges of racism were thrown around, and it caused me to wonder how much Mormonism influenced all us of regarding latent and overt racism. I also was wondering why some people seem to overcompensate for their latent racism by obssessively fixating on race as factors in and out of politics.

I tend to belive that Mormonism made one racist, in the purest sense of the word. White and delightsome were words used to describe the pinnacle of existentialism. Quite literally, God is White, and those that aren't white were less pure, less valiant, less worthy.

I recall as a kid, putting a poster of Magic Johnson up on my bedroom wall. It was a close-up of his smiling face. This was the second black man to grace my wall, the first being a poster of Earl Campbell, a phenomenal Houston Oilers/University of Texas running back. I was shocked, that within 5 minutes of putting the poster up on my wall my devoutly Mormon mother tore it off saying that she didn't want a picture of a n*gger in my room. Oddly enough, she left the action shot poster of Earl Campbell up; I suppose his features and skin being enclosed in a helmet and pads somehow made it less offensive to her.

Regardless, this had a profound impact upon me. Even though I continued as a kid and youth to regard black people as something not to despise, my familial and religious influences made it easier to pass judgement on them while giving my own kind various passes. This kind of bigotry was passed on in my estimation of all sorts of races and ethnicities. It's not a hard thing when in the Mormon church it is taught by various people, to include your own family, that Asian, Latinos, Arabs, Catholics, etc... Were less valiant than you and that your being born white was an indicator of your celestial lineage.

These are hard lessons to unlearn.

However, I did unlearn them to a degree. While I no longer consider myself racist (something that was tossed into the mental dustbin sometime around my mission when I was 21 realizing we're all essentially the same, and many many Latinos were my superior in intellect and ability), I'm definitely opinionated. I'm very opinionated. But I don't really consider that an oddity. In fact, it's my firm opinion that we're all bigots to one degree or another, or about one thing or various others. One thing I've come to learn is that no matter one's skin color, ethnicity, or ideology we all tend to self-identify with a group or a tribe; whether that tribe is based in skin color, culture, sports teams, politics... It doesn't matter, but affiliation and defense of "the team" tends to supercede clear thinking and sober judgments. Why? Because people need identity and confirmation in order to deal with inherent existential questions. It's really that simple.

So. Are black people biogted? Yes. Yes, they are. A 99.6% pro-Obama voting record confirms that. Are they racist? Mmm... I don't think that's the case mostly. I'm not sure, outside of Reverend Wright and his ilk, that most black people think they're superior to other races. And I think the same applies to White people. I don't think most White people are racist. But I think they have a White bias. Just Blacks have a Black bias. Browns have a Brown bias. Asians, etc...

So... Some questions...

Do you feel like Mormonism was a significant factor that did or did not develop racist tendencies within you?

For post-Mormons, do you feel like you still have racist/bigoted/prejudiced feelings/thoughts toward non-Whites?

For people who don't feel like they're racist, how do you view various races and whether or not they possess racist sentiments?

For any non-Whites, what's your perspective on Mormonism and racism, or racism in general?



feckin' ads

Great topic! Edited out too much information :)

I don't think the voting patterns of black Americans is outside the norm in this Presidential election. Do you really think if it was a Republican that was running and he or she happened to be black that the votes would have been that similar? Is the general black population fond of Clarence Thomas? Naw.

antishock8 wrote:For post-Mormons, do you feel like you still have racist/bigoted/prejudiced feelings/thoughts toward non-Whites?

For people who don't feel like they're racist, how do you view various races and whether or not they possess racist sentiments?

I grew up in a country that was 95% black (combination Indian and African). The whites were terribly racist, but it had nothing to do with religion, only "social status". It was not possible for Mormonism to inculcate racism into me, and when I learned of the Black Ban, which was after I joined, I felt like telling the Church to get stuffed, but I was already in and "hooked" on other things. It didn't sit well with me, but fortunately June 1978 lifted that burden.

Moniker wrote:Great topic! Edited out too much information :)

I don't think the voting patterns of black Americans is outside the norm in this Presidential election. Do you really think if it was a Republican that was running and he or she happened to be black that the votes would have been that similar? Is the general black population fond of Clarence Thomas? Naw.

Wow. What a shame you deleted all that information. It was a wonderful post. Very enlightening...

No. I don't think a Republican Black nominee would have garnered nearly as many votes. What percentage? I don't know. My intuition says around 40%, which would have been a huge shift...

Good to know the real Anti-8 ;-) Born & raised in Canada our prejudices were different. More towards, Eastern & Western European immigrants.

My first realization of a Black Man came one day in a gangish group of 6 & 7 year-olds watching the activity along a stopped passenger train. (I lived the second house from the tracks--on the wrong side :-) The Porter was tending to the pasengers and waiting to holler, "All aboard". As we so often mimiced.

In one of those opportune moments between actions, "Mister, are you a N....r?" I asked. I will NEVER forget his smile, nor his words. "No sonny, I'm a man."

When I learned that the church I belonged to, had their "don't-ask-don't-tell" secret, I simply pushed it back as I would if finding out my favourite Uncle had robed a bank in his past. But then, awareness that comes with maturity kept niggling and bringing the issue closer to the front. Fortunately resolved in 1978 as, "all's well that ends well." But that simplisticness doesn't look the same in the light of day.

Like the parable of gathering the epithets thrown in the wind. They would have been better not said, for they cannot be regathered...

Roger

I wonder if there are Black kids out there that have similar experiences? I wish I knew... Has some Black kid put up a poster of, say, Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns only to have it torn from the wall in a fit of prejudicial judgmentalism?

Do Latino kids have a La Raza emphasis on their upbringing?

I have no idea outside of my own experience. I'm surprised some of the "open-minded" types here haven't chime in...

So. What's up? How come Whitey doesn't want to talk about this? Is this something one just uses to level a charge with, but can't be introspective and thoughtful about? I'm particularly interested in reading something from The Dude, since he seems to feel vested with the power of discernment.

I didn't grow up LDS, so can't offer insight into that aspect. I do think that, given past LDS teachings about the issue, that a Mormon would be more prone to racism, and less prone to recognizing it as well.

Personally, I grew up with parents who bent over backwards to avoid transmitting racism of any kind.

Perhaps other "whities" aren't eager to try and engage in serious discussion with you at the moment, given your recent history of hyperbole and distortion. Really, if you're going to continue that approach, it's not worth the bother.

I don't think I have racist tendencies and I don't think Mormonism was a significant effect. This is probably because I grew up in Utah, where there aren't too many blacks, plus the fact that the priesthood ban was lifted when I was young. So the racist doctrines were dropped and there were rarely opportunities to even see blacks except on the Cosby Show, which made them seem pretty white, actually. I served a mission in Brazil and I honestly think I treated everybody the same.

In contrast, I have to admit that I still struggle with sexist tendencies and Mormonism had much to do with it. The teaching that women have inherently different talents and roles in society, that they are to be subservient followers to males, was pervasive in my church and my home. My mother lived that role and my sisters were raised to live it as well, and I was taught to expect it. I hate it but I think it's still inside me, to some degree. The worst material effect of this can be seen in how it set up the first few years of my marriage: I was happy to have my wife quit school and get a job to help me finish at BYU (my own mother did the same). Now my wife doesn't have a college degree and has a very difficult time getting a good job when we need a second income, plus there are self-esteem issues when so many of my female work friends don't have just bachelor's degrees, but PhDs as well. I blame Mormonism for starting us on this backward path, for the gross imbalance.

Hi Beastie, you said:

Perhaps other "whities" aren't eager to try and engage in serious discussion with you at the moment, given your recent history of hyperbole and distortion. Really, if you're going to continue that approach, it's not worth the bother.(added by RM)

Respectfully B, Anti-8 told us why he went down that road. Why not just turn the page. I know he doesn't need me to defend him, but I'm just an old-guy who knows, nothing constructive or productive is achieved living-in, or being reluctant to let go of, the past.

One of the secrets of the joy & success of my/our 56 year marriage: Never get up in the morning with any reference to any ill feelings towards each other that might have existed yesterday. For what it's worth...

Warm regards,

Roger :-)