Protest at Salt Lake Temple Fri., first hand perspective

[_hobart]

So, I attended the rally last night. There seemed to be more people than were ever expected. It was very loud. I chose not to yell but to walk quietly on the sidewalk. When the crowd left the park to walk around the temple block, there were so many people that they were walking in and stopping traffic (which was being poorly controlled by police). I asked a police officer if being in the street was allowed, and he said "at this point, we don't have a choice." There were a few protesters of the protesters standing promoting their positions as well--that homosexuality was wrong, that marriage was between a man and a woman, etc. There was a few yelling arguments that I passed, and I could tell there was a lot of emotion in the air. They closed the temple gates and volunteers/security guards were poised to make sure protesters did not enter the private property of the Church. The crowd was so big that I was concerned it would get out of hand. I saw an interview with a Mr. Graham from the Standard of Liberty (pro-traditional marriage organization) that he saw a lot of "hate" from the protesters--including a bottle that was thrown. I agree that there were people in the protest that acted more disrespectfully than I would have liked--signs that had swastikas and "bigot" associated with the church was too much if you asked me, but I was pleased at the overall peacefulness and respect from the rally supporters. I did have a LDS lady and her husband (pro-prop 8, who apparently came with a group to sing hymns) follow my friends for a while to harass us and saying some pretty disgusting things. I tried to ignore them, but I was upset because I guess I expected more out of church members. At nine o'clock, Salt Lake Police moved to break up lingering protesters. As I was standing on the corner, I saw an officer get out of his car wielding a baton. I politely asked what was going on and if we should go home, but was ignored and treated rudely by two of them. I guess they weren't too happy about what was going on either.

Emotions were riding high on both sides. I'm glad that it was shown to the public and church leaders that there are many people that have been hurt and alienated over the decision to involve the church officially with Proposition 8. On the other hand, I'm more concerned than ever that there are not more rational discussions over the issue. I just heard today that many members are resigning over the issue. My friends on both sides are loosing and cutting off friends and family over the disagreements between the two sides. I hate to see this kind of anger, hurt, and hate. The problem I see is that the whole thing is deeper than just deciding what should be the laws. One problem is that when one believes God has spoken, there is no rational discussion, there is compromise, because the thinking has been done. On the other side, those who support "gay-rights" feel hated and persecuted (which we've been told isn't the intention of the church).

What shall be done? Where will we go from here?

[_Gazelam]

Hobart,

The title Go dhas chosen to be known by is Father. In a homosexual relationship there are no fathers or mothers, only self involved and perverted relationships. The lessons available to a married couple who parent children are a big part of our mortal existence, and two dissidents who find supposed pleasure in one anothers arms steal that experience from one another.

Its sick and its wrong and it has to be fought against.

gaz

[_Gadianton]

A great post, Hobart, from the center of the action. Do you know what the proplem is? I do. Church members don't know (don't think they know) any gay people. That's it. As much as I look up to Steve Young and his wife, I have to wonder, if they were soley under the advice of the LDS church, and did not have the personal interaction that stemmed from Barbera's brother, would they really be as anti 8 as they are? I have to look at my own life too. If it were not for the fact that I a) hate the church b) know five gay people c) one of my best friends, who was gay, and LDS having died, then how would I react? I might feel very little about the situation.

The problem is, the people of Utah, the Mormons, have shielded themselves overall from ever having the opportunity of entertaining a different way of looking at things. It's almost as if they've robbed themselves from their own free agency, the thing they supposidly prize over everything else. They simply do not have the exposure to make a rational choice on this matter.

Well, that is, the membership as a whole and especially those of the school established by the geriatric leadership. Many of the younger generation of Mormonism I think have hope.

If a Mormon exists who can say they've known someone is gay, and that they loved this person, deeply in their heart, and can still say that they support prop 8, I could at least take their opinion seriously, even if I disagree.

[_Jersey Girl]

Hobart,

The title Go dhas chosen to be known by is Father. In a homosexual relationship there are no fathers or mothers, only self involved and perverted relationships. The lessons available to a married couple who parent children are a big part of our mortal existence, and two dissidents who find supposed pleasure in one anothers arms steal that experience from one another.

Its sick and its wrong and it has to be fought against.

gaz

Stop it with the pretzel logic already, Gaz. Your first couple of sentences make no sense.

"The title God has chose to be known as is Father". A homosexual DOES have a father and can also BE a father.

You seem to think there are no homosexuals who are parenting their own children or even HAVE children.

[_Ray A]

hobart, you sound like a very reasonable person to me.

[_Ray A]

A great post, Hobart, from the center of the action. Do you know what the proplem is? I do. Church members don't know (don't think they know) any gay people.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement. Most of them don't seem to know gay people, and when like Carol Lynn Pearson they experience it firsthand, no wonder their views change.

[Guest]

Hobart,

The title Go dhas chosen to be known by is Father. In a homosexual relationship there are no fathers or mothers, only self involved and perverted relationships. The lessons available to a married couple who parent children are a big part of our mortal existence, and two dissidents who find supposed pleasure in one anothers arms steal that experience from one another.

Its sick and its wrong and it has to be fought against.

gaz

I don't really think I believe in God, especially in the Mormon way of a father. I do know I believe in love and mutual giving between the people here on earth, so I don't really take any notice to your reasoning, but thank you for your opinion.

[edited for spelling]

[_hobart]

A great post, Hobart, from the center of the action. Do you know what the proplem is? I do. Church members don't know (don't think they know) any gay people.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement. Most of them don't seem to know gay people, and when like Carol Lynn Pearson they experience it firsthand, no wonder their views change.

Well, I actually met many straight--even active Mormon members, some with their spouses and children--out there last night. I have had members apologize to me for what their church has done (or at least how it feels to some of what it's doing). There is a lot of Mormons who are not like that lady that confronted my friends and I. And still, this is the problem: this one girl (active LDS) said she was against prop 8 and lost several friends over it. I have not so far lost any friends, I still talk and hang out with people who were pro-prop 8. Since when can we not love AND disagree at the same time? Many people can't.

[_Ray A]

Well, I actually met many straight--even active Mormon members, some with their spouses and children--out there last night. I have had members apologize to me for what their church has done (or at least how it feels to some of what it's doing). There is a lot of Mormons who are not like that lady that confronted my friends and I. And still, this is the problem: this one girl (active LDS) said she was against prop 8 and lost several friends over it. I have not so far lost any friends, I still talk and hang out with people who were pro-prop 8. Since when can we not love AND disagree at the same time? Many people can't.

I think the Church is going to get a terrible backlash from this, and the one they want to keep their eyes on is the backlash from within. I supposed they'll see it as a sorting out of "wheat and tares". My own experience with gay people, which includes having more gay friends than I can count on two hands, is that, as a cab driver, I've never, ever, on any occasion had a problem with gay people, who have always been peaceful. I'd stop for a gay person before a hetero male anyday. It's the young hyped-up male heteros who cause us the most problems. I can understand, though, why this issue is causing some gay people to react with what I consider uncharacteristic "violent tendencies". That's not going to help, but I feel that this can all be overcome with a rational approach. I understand that the voting has been close, and in a few years' time most Americans will understand that none of the hysteria surrounding this is supported by scientific studies in other countries, nor in the experience of countries that have accepted civil unions or gay marriage.

There only one way I can describe this: Religious hysteria.

[_Gazelam]

Jersey,

A homosexual DOES have a father and can also BE a father.

You seem to think there are no homosexuals who are parenting their own children or even HAVE children.

Your missing the point Jersey. They have left the association that spawned those children and have entered into a relationship that is in direct conflict with what is right and proper.

You can't see that? The relationship betwen a man and a woman is a blending of thoughts and values and strengths and weaknesses. There are differences between the sexes, and a proper marriage harmonizes those things. Children need to be brought up in an enviorment where that balance is respected and maintained. that's a foundational part of society as a whole.