Wade Englund Protests at Temple Square
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:01 pm
Over on the aptly named MADboard, former CSSAD operator Wade Englund has posted an account of his political activism. It will make for a useful comparison with Hobart's testimony:
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 39008&st=0
Let us break down and analyze Brother Englund's remarks:
Right. So his activities had nothing to do with trying to "combat" the "homosexual threat," or anything like that. In essense, he seems to view his activities as being on a par with worshiping in church. His write-up continues:
This is vintage Englund. First, he delivers a cheap shot at the appearance of the protesters ("odd-looking characters"), then he goes on to make a completely nonsensical accusation---i.e., that the gay rights protesters were somehow oblivious to the fact that there were engaging in behavior they were criticizing, but his actually does not exist. (Right? *Is* that what Wade was saying? I admit that I am not fluent in "Englush.")
In any event, he goes on to explain what he means:
Wow! It seems that Wade is very brave indeed! I have to wonder if he really was (as he claims) there to "give thanks" to the LDS Church for "protecting families." (For that matter, what did his poster say? And was he really so naïve as to think that it wouldn't stir up drama?) Try to create a mental picture of what Wade would have looked like: he would have been standing there, holding some sign in favor of the LDS Church's position, and he would have been smiling and waving. How do you think the average person would interpret his behavior? A smug celebration of victory? A friendly "giving of thanks" to the LDS Church? A subtly aggressive (and thus very Mormon) assault against the protesters? Notice how, in his account, he says that he "responded...jovially and in the spirit of light-heartedness and good fun". What do you suppose he means? (Also, why didn't he just give us---to the best of his recollection---his verbatim words?) Knowing Wade, I have to assume that he was doling out a lot of provocative, insulting, and condescending mockery.
His account goes on:
I'm not sure what he meant to accomplish with this piece of the anecdote. Was he trying to paint gay LDS as hypocrites? Or ark-steadiers?
This next bit was apparently meant to be the most powerful and affecting passage in his OP:
Um... Yeah, okay. Well, I guess Wade---who originally said that he was "thanking" the LDS Church for "protecting families"---is using his post as a very sneaky means of painting the gay rights movement as a tool of hate. Here, he makes it seem as if the "evil gay rights" protesters and supporters are corrupting a child.
But, Wade cannot control himself, and he later lets slip what his real motive was:
In a later post, he writes:
So, it would seem that Wade's real motive in doing this was to try and trivialize, ridicule, and infantilize his opponents. He wants to view---and to paint---those he disagrees with as a bunch of Halloween-esque freaks who are ultimately very childlike in their beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors. He wanted to treat the protests as a form of "entertainment," and, gosh golly!, if he'd had the opportunity, he would have passed out his Halloween candy. Needless to say, I found all of this highly distasteful. Wade has long said that he favors doing things that "help," but it's hard to see how his behavior this time around helped to accomplish anything. Instead, it seems more like he was gloating, and looking to stick it to all those "homos."
On another note, it seems that this messageboard was "representin'". Apparently, someone at the protests was brandishing a "MormonDiscussions.com" poster! Feel free to raise the roof at your leisure.
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 39008&st=0
Let us break down and analyze Brother Englund's remarks:
Wade wrote:I went to Temple Square last night to both observe the Prop 8 protest and to express (by way of my poster board) my thanks to LDS for protecting families, morals, and children (this was my version of a counter-protest).
Right. So his activities had nothing to do with trying to "combat" the "homosexual threat," or anything like that. In essense, he seems to view his activities as being on a par with worshiping in church. His write-up continues:
wenglund wrote:There were several aspects of the experience that made it seem as though I had entered the Twilight Zone. I am not so much referring to the disproportional number of odd-looking characters in the crowd of thousands (which is understandable given that we're talking about alternative life styles), though they certainly added to the surreal atmosphere. Rather, it had to do with the seeming inexplicable and irony-rich disconnect between what many of them were voicing (by way of chanting and signs) and what many of them were doing--i.e. they were doing some of the very things that they were simultaneously falsely accusing the Church membership of doing.
This is vintage Englund. First, he delivers a cheap shot at the appearance of the protesters ("odd-looking characters"), then he goes on to make a completely nonsensical accusation---i.e., that the gay rights protesters were somehow oblivious to the fact that there were engaging in behavior they were criticizing, but his actually does not exist. (Right? *Is* that what Wade was saying? I admit that I am not fluent in "Englush.")
In any event, he goes on to explain what he means:
wenglund wrote:For example, not a few of the signs and chants were about not hating and not judging. Yet, while I waved to the passers-by with a smile on my face and said a warm "hello", I had a few obscenities and vulgar slurs hurled my way, I was vociferously harangued by several attendees, and towards the end I found myself on a corner being yelled at simultaneously by at least 11 protesters who were rapidly firing questions at me and accusing me, a stranger to them, of being hateful and judgmental, all of which I responded to jovially and in the spirit of light-heartedness and good fun.
Wow! It seems that Wade is very brave indeed! I have to wonder if he really was (as he claims) there to "give thanks" to the LDS Church for "protecting families." (For that matter, what did his poster say? And was he really so naïve as to think that it wouldn't stir up drama?) Try to create a mental picture of what Wade would have looked like: he would have been standing there, holding some sign in favor of the LDS Church's position, and he would have been smiling and waving. How do you think the average person would interpret his behavior? A smug celebration of victory? A friendly "giving of thanks" to the LDS Church? A subtly aggressive (and thus very Mormon) assault against the protesters? Notice how, in his account, he says that he "responded...jovially and in the spirit of light-heartedness and good fun". What do you suppose he means? (Also, why didn't he just give us---to the best of his recollection---his verbatim words?) Knowing Wade, I have to assume that he was doling out a lot of provocative, insulting, and condescending mockery.
His account goes on:
Wade wrote:Throughout the course of the event several protesters spoke to me individually, and before reproaching me and the Church, announced that they were members of the Church--one of them claimed to be a gay Mormon while inadvertently blowing cigarette smoke in my face. When I thanked them for coming, several of them prophesied that times were changing and that the Church would rue the day.
I'm not sure what he meant to accomplish with this piece of the anecdote. Was he trying to paint gay LDS as hypocrites? Or ark-steadiers?
This next bit was apparently meant to be the most powerful and affecting passage in his OP:
wenglund wrote:But, the most bizarre thing I experienced was when a young family passed by where I was standing and presumably after digesting the message of thanks written on my sign, the mother walked back with the child she was holding, and pointing at me, and with as much venom in her voice as I have ever witnessed, told her child that I was from the church of hate and that she was going to continue to teach the child that LDS was a church of hate, and then stormed off in a huff. I felt deep sorrow for the child, who understandably had a look of perplexity and fear on its face, likely due to, in its innocent and pure understanding, not having a disconnect between the mother's angry accusations of me supposedly being someone filled with hate, and my giving the child a look of loving understanding and remaining peacefully silent.
Um... Yeah, okay. Well, I guess Wade---who originally said that he was "thanking" the LDS Church for "protecting families"---is using his post as a very sneaky means of painting the gay rights movement as a tool of hate. Here, he makes it seem as if the "evil gay rights" protesters and supporters are corrupting a child.
But, Wade cannot control himself, and he later lets slip what his real motive was:
(emphasis added)To be fair, though, many of attendees were quite civil and well-mannered, and some even returned my smiling waves with smiling waves of their own. One gentleman even came up to me and said that while he disagreed with my position, he was grateful to see me there. I thought that was very gracious of him and I thanked him for his kindness.
Unfortunately, circumstances didn't lend themselves to me passing out my leftover Halloween candy, but all in all it was an entertaining and educational event. And, with the myriad of camera shots being taken, I trust that there will soon be more than enough pictorial records of the protest posted to the net to give one a sense of what it was like to be there. Hopefully, one or more of the participants here were among those taking photos, and will upload and link to the pictures for our amusement.
In a later post, he writes:
Several females at RFM have been bragging that they turned this event into a family-night experience. Like you, I have concerns about young children being subjected to such things. But, I am hoping that those who were aren't ill-effected by being there, but are able to look upon the experience in much the same way they do trick-or-treat.
So, it would seem that Wade's real motive in doing this was to try and trivialize, ridicule, and infantilize his opponents. He wants to view---and to paint---those he disagrees with as a bunch of Halloween-esque freaks who are ultimately very childlike in their beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors. He wanted to treat the protests as a form of "entertainment," and, gosh golly!, if he'd had the opportunity, he would have passed out his Halloween candy. Needless to say, I found all of this highly distasteful. Wade has long said that he favors doing things that "help," but it's hard to see how his behavior this time around helped to accomplish anything. Instead, it seems more like he was gloating, and looking to stick it to all those "homos."
On another note, it seems that this messageboard was "representin'". Apparently, someone at the protests was brandishing a "MormonDiscussions.com" poster! Feel free to raise the roof at your leisure.