DiscussMormonism.com

Saw this in the celestial section which appears to get little visititation and comment.

A good question. This is a cornerstone missionary tool these days and has been for some time. It is referred to often as teaching the difinitive nature of God and Christ as two separate, identical beings.(as in 'if you have seen me you have seen the father)

The early days of LDS(under the first names years before the current name was chosen) the First Vision story of the Father and Son is absent.

When did the missionaries and members actually start using this story?

There was a thread for this in Terrestrial already from a while back:
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7011

California Kid said: "A sunstone presenter said that the FV didn't get significant circulation even among Mormons until the Reed Smoot hearing."

I wonder why this presenter didn't give weight to the fact that it was being preached in the bowery in Utah long before that?

It seems as if you assume that in every instance God comes to man and reveals or restores EVERYTHING in a single flash of blinding, mind numbing, Matrix style kung fu teaching, methods.

This has not been my experience. Nor do I think it was Josephs. Nor does it seem to be the case in the life of the early Apostles. Nor was it the case with Moses. I could go on.

My point is this; God bestows light and knowledge upon mankind and allows us to grow in grace and truth. And PRAISE GOD that we are allowed to carry our own cross, to bear our own burdens, and experience the fiery furnace that is tribulation that He may be glorified. For does it not say, "Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted".

Joseph grew line upon line. As do we. As does the Church. As do all of His creatures.

So if I may ask; what are your motives? I'm not sure if you're Christian, but the Savior once asked, "What seek ye?" And so I put the question to you.

Big UP!

Lamanite

Lamanite wrote:
Joseph grew line upon line. As do we. As does the Church. As do all of His creatures.

How do you justify polygamy?

Ray A wrote:

Lamanite wrote:
How do you justify polygamy?

I'm not trying to play at any games here, I'm just wondering what you mean by "justify"? I could go all day with you on this subject. We can even break out the cheese and crackers, a bottle of Merlot, and some Todd Compton and get to work. But to what end?

Let me know what information, evidence, material I would need to justify. And I'll get to work.

Or we could agree that Joseph received revelatory information regarding Polygamy and just did a terrible job logistically during its implementation. Or we could say, I freakin wish I knew why he lied to Emma. Or if it's all false why did strong resistant women like Lucy Walker receive individual confirmations from God regarding her Marrying joseph, if he didn't receive a revelation in the first place?

Big UP!

Lamanite

Lamanite wrote:Or if it's all false why did strong resistant women like Lucy Walker receive individual confirmations from God regarding her Marrying joseph, if he didn't receive a revelation in the first place?

Big UP!

Lamanite

Lamanite, I must forewarn you that I'm possibly polygamy's biggest foe on forums, and I consider it nothing but a twisted abomination. If you seek to justify it, then we will be at odds. Lucy Walker? Have you ever heard of Emma Smith?

Mormon Enigma.

Yeah, you've probably read it. But maybe it just hasn't sunk in yet?

Lamanite wrote:It seems as if you assume that in every instance God comes to man and reveals or restores EVERYTHING in a single flash of blinding, mind numbing, Matrix style kung fu teaching, methods.

This has not been my experience. Nor do I think it was Josephs. Nor does it seem to be the case in the life of the early Apostles. Nor was it the case with Moses. I could go on.

My point is this; God bestows light and knowledge upon mankind and allows us to grow in grace and truth. And PRAISE GOD that we are allowed to carry our own cross, to bear our own burdens, and experience the fiery furnace that is tribulation that He may be glorified. For does it not say, "Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted".

Joseph grew line upon line. As do we. As does the Church. As do all of His creatures.

So if I may ask; what are your motives? I'm not sure if you're Christian, but the Savior once asked, "What seek ye?" And so I put the question to you.

Big UP!

Lamanite

In that same light, why did God reveal SOOOO much to Joseph Smith, then the revelation suddenly stopped with him?

If it's this slow process, shouldn't we be still getting significant revelation today? The kind of revelations like Joseph got?

"Marriage is between a man and a woman". Is that what you believe, Lamanite? Or do you believe that marriage is between a man and 33 women?

At least gay people are only asking for certification of man-man, or woman-woman marriages. Leave it to Joseph Smith to want to ratify a 1-33 "balance" in favour of men. And look at polygamy in America today. Do you think the Catholics started this?

"It seems as if you assume that in every instance God comes to man and reveals or restores EVERYTHING in a single flash of blinding, mind numbing, Matrix style kung fu teaching, methods."

If Joseph Smith had seen we are now told he saw his story would be consistent from the beginning. Simple as that, isn't it?

The first stories are apparently not of 'father and son' but that only came about later.

What did he see and when did he start preaching it? If he had told this version of God and Jesus from the first the missionary efforts would have taught it, right? If he had been teaching it from the first they would have known it from the first.