DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Mister Scratch »

I have to thank one of my anonymous informants for passing along this extraordinarily juicy tidbit--it is rather like an early Christmas gift has been dropped in my lap. Over on the aptly named MADboard, the poster named MatthewG has begun a very compelling thread entitled, "Where's the Mormon Version? Is It MADB?, Anti-Evangelical/Protestant/"Christian" sites run by Mormons".

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 1208557071

Here is the opening post:

MatthewG wrote:So I keep stumbling on Anti-Mormon websites run by "Christians"/evangelicals/protestants who claim they are "exposing" the lies of Mormonism or as CRAM claims "witnessing" to Mormons.


My questions is, If this is truly a Christ-like activity, where is the LDS version? Where are all the LDS websites "witnessing to Christians" about the lies of Baptists, Methodists, Catholics etc as so many "Christian" sites do to us?


Is it MADB?


Well, we know that LDS do not go after these other Christians, per se, and that, instead, they go after Chapel Mormons. But the thread gets better very quickly:

semlogo wrote: Churches with a profit motive tend to put up those kinds of sites.


Huh. Does this therefore mean that SHIELDS and FARMS are in support of a "Church with a profit motive"---i.e., a Church that solicits thousands of dollars from wealthy LDS in order to finance apologetics; a Church which requests 10%+ of its members income?

Richard Abanes, who has been posting very frequently as of late, offers up this reply:

rabanes wrote:CFR

Please provide financial documentation that such activities/websites produces a profit (presumably of significant measure, given the tone of your accusatory comment) for various "Churches." Please list churches, financial reports, any other evidence. I would be very interested.

Thank you,

RA


Yes, it's funny how the TBMs on MAD will accept that claim that Christian ministries are all in it for financial gain on the basis of zero evidence. Do you suppose that anyone on MAD will actually respond to R. Abanes's CFR? No. Of course not.

Semlogo immediately tries to backtrack (to little avail):

semlogo wrote:It was poorly worded. I meant those churches whose leadership directly & personally benefit financially from transferring folks from our religion to theirs. Of course the churches themselves are non-profit.


Do the leaders of the LDS Church "directly & personally benefit financially from transferring folks" from other religions? Do these Christian ministries have the same missionary force as the LDS Church? In a follow-up post, Abanes continues to throw the smack down:

rabanes wrote:My request for documentation still stands: CFR

Please provide financial documentation that such activities/websites produces a profit (presumably of significant measure, given the tone of your accusatory comment) for various "churches whose leadership directly & personally benefit financially from transferring folks from our religion to theirs." Please list churches, financial reports, individual leaders, and any other evidence. I would be very interested and it would be appreciated.

RA


Here is thread-starter MatthewG's lame reply:

MatthewG wrote:Great an "Authority" about Mormons among us, hopeful you of all people, can provide me with such websites. Owned and operated by Mormons witnessing to "Chrisitans", Evangelicals, and protestants exposing their lies and dishonesty. At least 2 or 3 should do. Thank you in advance.



Sure:
SHIELDS
FAIR
FARMS

That's "2 or 3". And we know that FARMS utilizes a huge operating budget---one that climbs into the millions.

Interestingly, Semlogo's strange logic (does his screenname mean "semi-logical"?) continues:

semlogo wrote:I don't mean profit - I mean wages for the leadership.

Do churches publish the information information you're seeking? This request seems to be a thinly-veiled attempt to distract me with a wild goose chase for information (that may not even be available) about something that should be pretty obvious. It's in the best financial interests of remunerated clergy to demonize their competitors, and hopefully steal some of their customers in the most aggressive way possible. In the old days it was convert or die - easy, with minimal overhead. The best they can do these days are aggressive anti-cult ministries that borrow techniques from the various political muck rackers and dirt diggers.


Wow! What does he seem to be describing? It's just on the tip of my tongue....

Later, Smac97 swoops onto the scene in an effort to lend some levity to the discussion. Let's break down his post piece by piece:

smac wrote:My sense is that Mormons don't bother much with scrutinizing and finding fault with other religions for a few reasons:

1. We have been on the receiving end of mistreatment for our beliefs for a long time, and are therefore not inclined to reciprocate such behaviors (though individual Latter-day Saints may on occasion do so).


Yes, including many authors on SHIELDS, FAIR, and the FARMS Review rather more than "occasionally do so".

2. We are more interested in sharing our beliefs than in tearing down the beliefs of others.


Of course, if the "sharing" results in a "tearing down," that is all fine and good.

3. What time we have to devote to religious things tends to be taken up with studying things LDS and participating in LDS activities.


This is true.

4. We find little in Evangelical Protestantism that cannot be found in equal or greater measure in the LDS Church.


I thought he said that LDS don't tear down other religions?

5. The disarray, contradictions and infighting amongst the various Protestant denominations are unattractive to many (most?) observant Latter-day Saints, who are accustomed to and reliant upon visible, coherent and structured lines of authority.


<Ahem>. Meldrum, anyone?

6. Learning about other religions so as to better understand and respect them is great. But learning about other religions so as to tear down the tenets of their faith comes across as repellant and repulsive to Latter-day Saints.


Buddha and Mohammed received "a portion" of God's light?

Daniel Peterson has repeatedly referenced a vivid illustration of this point: Take a stroll through virtually any Evangelical-themed bookstore and you'll find a prominent section devoted to exposes and critiques of "cults." Then take a stroll through Deseret Book and note the absence of any such section.


You'll also notice that Des. Book's website does not carry books by M. Quinn or G. Palmer. Would Smac like the average TBM to "note the absence" of such things? In a later post, Smac attempts to offer up concrete evidence that ministries are in the game purely for profit:

smac wrote:1. CRI is a good place to start. They clearly have a profit motive in attacking other religions (ol' Hank seems to make a tidy sum in that business).

2. Ed Decker's Saints Alive website includes a plea for money with every newsletter.

3. The Tanners' website. They sell anti-mormon books for profit. I also recall that they regularly sought donations during their frivolous lawsuit against FAIR.

-Smac


First, doesn't FARMS routinely ask people for money? Yes! And, in fact, they have a professional, Church-appointed fundraiser to help them do it. Second, do they sell "books for profit"? Yes! In fact, DCP stated in a separate MDB thread that they prefer not to deal with Amazon.com (despite its huge market) since doing so eats into FARMS's profit margins. The hypocrisy grows ever thicker on this MAD thread.

But wait. We aren't quite done yet.

Richard Abanes fires a torpedo straight into the TBMs' flank with this post:

rabanes wrote:This is what makes EVs shake their heads and look at Mormons as self-righteous and hypocritical (just telling it like it is from an EV perspective).

Your entire religion was founded by original members who did NOTHING but tear people down, spread lies, rumors, and act dishonestly. But let's just stick to the undeniable fact that Mormonism got started primarily by ripping at, criticizing, and attacking Christendom. And seeking to gain converts from out of Christendom. Need I remind anyone how it was Joseph Smith who started this thing off by declaring that so-called “Christianity” of his day (early 1830s) was COMPLETELY apostate — according to Joseph Smith, they had:

- a wrong concept of God,
- a mangled/perverted Bible,
- a skewed understanding of Jesus,
- a faulty idea of salvation, and all their ministers were corrupt.

This is why Mormonism began, as you all know, as the “restored” Christianity — i.e., the true Christianity that had been lost. Early Mormons, including its leaders, sought very hard to distance Mormonism from Christendom Christianity by attacking it mercilessly (please don't make me pull 19th century quotes).


Ouch! He's got a rather devastating point. The LDS Church would not exist if it hadn't been for Joseph Smith's divinely sanctioned attempts to "tear down" the faiths of the day. This really upsets a lot of the TBMs on the thread, including The Good Professor:

Daniel Peterson wrote:One of the many contrasts between militant evangelical Protestantism and my faith is our very different attitude toward those who disagree with us.

I find it enormously gratifying that we don't run "ministries," print tabloids, broadcast television shows, produce radio programs, generate curriculum materials, conduct seminars, organize picket lines, emit books, and circulate pamphlets dedicated to assaulting the religious beliefs of other people.

I find it sad, however, that the truculence of some of our evangelical brothers and sisters has made the cause of Christ a stench in the nostrils of decent people.

rabanes wrote:Your entire religion was founded by original members who did NOTHING but tear people down, spread lies, rumors, and act dishonestly.


Anti-Mormonism at its purest, foulest, most contemptible, and most historically illiterate.


Hoo boy. Where to start with this? How about here:

DCP wrote:I find it enormously gratifying that we don't run "ministries," print tabloids, broadcast television shows, produce radio programs, generate curriculum materials, conduct seminars, organize picket lines, emit books, and circulate pamphlets dedicated to assaulting the religious beliefs of other people.


Anyone who has studied the FARMS Review, or the FAIR youtube videos, will know that this isn't true. There is a *ton* of this material. While one could debate whether or not these works "assault...the religious beliefs of other people" (why don't we ask Meldrum? or the various Christian critics who have been ridiculed by l-skinny, SHIELDS, or whomever else?), there is no question that the LDS Church and its various "arms" (or "tentacles"?) definitely produce a veritable forest of media.

Also, DCP's over-the-top response to Abanes's harsh, though valid point, seems telling.

Later, Abanes once again tries to appeal to reason, but DCP's dogmatism stands in the way:

DCP wrote:
rabanes wrote:
I would agree if you are discussing "militant" anyone, including evangelicals.


There are no such "militant" Mormons.


Ah. Right. Pahoran does not exist. Neither do the authors of the FARMS Review hit pieces. Neither does the epithet-spewing Bill Hamblin. Nope: it's all fantasy. Sure.

So, where does that leave us? Well, my dear MDB brothers and sisters, we have now arrived at the best post of the entire MADthread. Many here have grown very weary and tired of criticism from myself and others dealing with the finances of apologetics. Over the course of several months, myself, Gadianton, Rollo Tomasi, and others have attempted to get to the bottom of FARMS's deep pockets, trying to follow the obscure money trail, often through a thick cloud of fog kicked up by DCP. Now, I know many---most notably Liz---have been irritated by this. I think, though, that we deserve credit, at the very least, for trying to rely upon actual evidence. Look at this:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
phaedrus ut wrote:I'm still not aware of any of these anti-cult or anti-mormon ministries where financial gain can be seen as any motivating interest. If you are going to make a blanket statement as such you should be willing to provide at least one example.


I have strong reason to believe, though I cannot prove it beyond doubt, that financial gain has been a principal motivation for Ed Decker.


How many angry posts has DCP put up over here in response to speculations into the funding of FARMS? (Speculations supported with actual, documentary evidence, I might add.) How often has he flailed about in desperation, "joking" about how he and his pals don't actually earn any money for their apologetics?

I suppose all I can say is: Read it and weep.
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

1.

FARMS was established as a 501c3 non-profit foundation, and the Maxwell Institute, within BYU, carries on in the same manner. We do not make a profit, and, in fact, we are legally prohibited from doing so.

2.

I have a lengthy record of writing and publishing about other religions, illustrated by such things as several years of articles on the subject (written with Bill Hamblin) for Meridian magazine (many of which, I imagine, are still on line), numerous encyclopedia and academic articles on Islam (including the most recent, a study of traditions about Muhammad between his conception and his birth entitled "A Prophet Emerging," in Jane Marie Law and Vanessa Sasson, eds., Imagining the Fetus: The Unborn in Myth, Religion, and Culture [New York: Oxford University Press, 2008]), Abraham Divided: An LDS Perspective on the Middle East (Salt Lake City: Aspen Books, 1992, 1995, 2001) [revised third edition forthcoming from Deseret Book], Muhammad: Prophet of God (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 2007), and the dual-language Islamic, Eastern Christian, and Jewish volumes published in the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative, which are distributed through the University of Chicago Press.

There is no need to speculate about whether or not I treat other religions with respect. My record in this regard is public and open to examination.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:1.

FARMS was established as a 501c3 non-profit foundation, and the Maxwell Institute, within BYU, carries on in the same manner. We do not make a profit, and, in fact, we are legally prohibited from doing so.


Is Decker's organization a 501c3? Do you know? Or were you just making a wild guess?

2.

I have a lengthy record of writing and publishing about other religions, illustrated by such things as several years of articles on the subject (written with Bill Hamblin) for Meridian magazine (many of which, I imagine, are still on line), numerous encyclopedia and academic articles on Islam (including the most recent, a study of traditions about Muhammad between his conception and his birth entitled "A Prophet Emerging," in Jane Marie Law and Vanessa Sasson, eds., Imagining the Fetus: The Unborn in Myth, Religion, and Culture [New York: Oxford University Press, 2008]), Abraham Divided: An LDS Perspective on the Middle East (Salt Lake City: Aspen Books, 1992, 1995, 2001) [revised third edition forthcoming from Deseret Book], Muhammad: Prophet of God (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 2007), and the dual-language Islamic, Eastern Christian, and Jewish volumes published in the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative, which are distributed through the University of Chicago Press.

There is no need to speculate about whether or not I treat other religions with respect. My record in this regard is public and open to examination.


Kind of beside the point, isn't it, Professor P.? The point of the opening post on the MADthread had to do with whether or not there are equivalent "attack" organizations within Mormonism. Well, it seems transparently obvious that there are---the FARMS Review being chief among them. Furthermore, it seems rank and hypocritical for you and other MAD TBMs to conclude that Christian ministries are out for "profit" when you guys have a professional fundraiser and you have multi-millions in assets. There just isn't any comparison. If raking in cash and using it to finance attack pieces equals a rotten enterprise, then FARMS really takes the cake.

In fact, why don't you tell the TBMs on the thread how much money you guys have at your disposal?
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Mister Scratch »

by the way: a separate anonymous informant called my attention to a July, 2008 MAD thread which cited a PEW Forum poll:

The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life last year surveyed 35,000 American, and found that 70% of respondents agreed with the statement "Many religions can lead to eternal life." Even more remarkable was the fact that 57% of Evangelical Christians were willing to accept that theirs might not be the only path to salvation, since most Christians historically have embraced the words of Jesus, in the Gospel of John, that "no one comes to the Father except through me."

[...]

...if one isolates the most "traditionalist" members of the white Evangelical group, 50% still agreed that other faiths might offer a path to eternal life. In fact, of the dozens of denominations covered by the Pew survey, it was only Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who answered in the majority that their own faith was the only way to eternal life.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080623/u ... osalvation


In other words: Why make direct attacks on other faiths when you can do it by implication? That way, you can sneakily squash them into oblivion all while making yourself out to be super-dooper nice and squeaky clean!
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Mister Scratch wrote:Is Decker's organization a 501c3? Do you know? Or were you just making a wild guess?

I have no idea, and it's not really relevant anyway.

Mister Scratch wrote:The point of the opening post on the MADthread had to do with whether or not there are equivalent "attack" organizations within Mormonism. Well, it seems transparently obvious that there are---the FARMS Review being chief among them.

That's simple nonsense.

The FARMS Review has never published an attack on evangelicalism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Islam, Eastern Orthodoxy, Shinto, Hinduism, or any other faith, and it never will.

Mister Scratch wrote:Furthermore, it seems rank and hypocritical for you and other MAD TBMs to conclude that Christian ministries are out for "profit" when you guys have a professional fundraiser and you have multi-millions in assets. There just isn't any comparison. If raking in cash and using it to finance attack pieces equals a rotten enterprise, then FARMS really takes the cake.

It's a good thing you don't actually have to live on the imaginary diet that you serve up.

Mister Scratch wrote:In fact, why don't you tell the TBMs on the thread how much money you guys have at your disposal?

Because, as you know perfectly well, it's the policy of Brigham Young University not to publish its budget, in whole or in part. Even if you had a claim on my good will, which you manifestly don't, I wouldn't be inclined to violate university policy simply to satisfy your malevolent and insatiable curiosity for gossip and private information.

Get the data yourself, through your creepy network of "anonymous informants." Or don't. Whatever.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:Is Decker's organization a 501c3? Do you know? Or were you just making a wild guess?

I have no idea, and it's not really relevant anyway.


Oh, it's not? You find it OK to speculate about the motives of Ed Decker and other Church critics on the basis of no evidence? Would you cease in your speculative criticism if Decker, or whomever else, were to joke about his platinum bathroom fixtures, and his multiple Ferraris and whatnot?

Mister Scratch wrote:The point of the opening post on the MADthread had to do with whether or not there are equivalent "attack" organizations within Mormonism. Well, it seems transparently obvious that there are---the FARMS Review being chief among them.

That's simple nonsense.

The FARMS Review has never published an attack on evangelicalism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Islam, Eastern Orthodoxy, Shinto, Hinduism, or any other faith, and it never will.


Sure it has. It has attacked the benign and idealistic faith of Chapel Mormons.

Mister Scratch wrote:Furthermore, it seems rank and hypocritical for you and other MAD TBMs to conclude that Christian ministries are out for "profit" when you guys have a professional fundraiser and you have multi-millions in assets. There just isn't any comparison. If raking in cash and using it to finance attack pieces equals a rotten enterprise, then FARMS really takes the cake.

It's a good thing you don't actually have to live on the imaginary diet that you serve up.


The point remains the same: it is deeply hypocritical for you and the other MAD TBMs to criticize Christian ministries for supposedly having a financial motivation.

Mister Scratch wrote:In fact, why don't you tell the TBMs on the thread how much money you guys have at your disposal?

Because, as you know perfectly well, it's the policy of Brigham Young University not to publish its budget, in whole or in part. Even if you had a claim on my good will, which you manifestly don't, I wouldn't be inclined to violate university policy simply to satisfy your malevolent and insatiable curiosity for gossip and private information.

Get the data yourself, through your creepy network of "anonymous informants." Or don't. Whatever.


Perhaps it would be better for me to simply speculate that you guys are operating a hugely profitable Mopologetic operation, as you are doing to Decker & et al.?

Again: that's the point. It's wrong for you to cheer on the kinds of criticism occurring the the MAD thread. The hypocrisy is beyond evident.
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Jersey Girl »

I don't know if this has been identified in the thread, I only briefly scanned it. What Ed Decker org. are you all referring to?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Incidentally, I'd be interested to know where I accused Christian ministries of greed.

Because, for one thing, I don't believe that most or even many Christian ministries -- there must be hundreds of thousands of them -- are motivated by greed. Very often, they're impelled by genuine idealism and devotion, at considerable sacrifice.

I don't even believe that to be true of most "countercult ministries." Not by a long shot.

Because of my fairly extensive acquaintance with, and knowledge of, Ed Decker's works and activities -- and because of conversations with him, with people who've known him, and even with people who have lived in his house with him -- I suspect, though I cannot prove, that financial interests have played a significant role in his anti-Mormon activities over the years. But I don't believe this to be the case with such people as the Tanners, or with the vast majority of the other anti-Mormon "ministries" that have dotted the lanscape of the past few decades.

I'm not alone in seeing the possibility of financial motivation among countercultists, though. Not a few evangelical critics of Hank Hanegraaff's regime at the Christian Research Institute, since he wrested control of it from the heirs of its founder, Walter Martin -- have suggested much the same thing about him:

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/4040/au ... evangelist

But that's for evangelicals to work out among themselves.

For Jersey Girl: Ed Decker founded "Ex-Mormons for Jesus" and "Saints Alive in Jesus." I have something to say about Decker's work at

http://farms.byu.edu/publications/revie ... m=2&id=190

I'm not going to engage in another long and pointless back-and-forth with Scratch: I just get muddy, and he enjoys it. But, for the record (there's always a chance that innocent people actually interested in the truth might stop by here), I deny -- and find risible -- the notion that the FARMS Review has "attacked the benign and idealistic faith of Chapel Mormons." For one thing, I don't even recognize the existence of such a distinct class of Latter-day Saints; I've never bought into Shades's silly little false dichotomy. (According to Shades's tests, I am a "chapel Mormon.") But I do find Scratch's feigned solicitude for this mythical tribe -- he'll adopt virtually any pose if it facilitates an attack on me and the FARMS Review -- amusing.
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Gadianton »

Well, Scratch, what I find amazing is that by the accounts of the apologists it would seem everyone is in it for the money but them. They are the only pure, trustable people on the earth. It's not just the EV anti-Mormons who are in it for the money, but Chapel Mormons like Meldrum and a number of others who are criticized for just wanting to profit by writing their LDS books by the "Review", by FAIR, and so on. And then, nearly in the same breath, the apologists turn around and scoff at all these foks for being rinky-dink operations that are usually broke -- "the old cash nexus" you know, and contrasted with the big member-backed 501c, the "professional" scholarly venue of the LDS.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: DCP Accuses Christian Ministries of "Greed"

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Incidentally, I'd be interested to know where I accused Christian ministries of greed.


It is implicit within the context of the thread. Further, as editor of the Review you published Lou Midgley's "That Old Cash Nexus" attack piece. You want people to believe that Christian ministries critical of Mormonism are "greedy," and in it for the money.

Because, for one thing, I don't believe that most or even many Christian ministries -- there must be hundreds of thousands of them -- are motivated by greed. Very often, they're impelled by genuine idealism and devotion, at considerable sacrifice.

I don't even believe that to be true of most "countercult ministries." Not by a long shot.


Yes; of course. Only the ones critical of Mormonism, right?

Because of my fairly extensive acquaintance with, and knowledge of, Ed Decker's works and activities -- and because of conversations with him, with people who've known him, and even with people who have lived in his house with him -- I suspect, though I cannot prove, that financial interests have played a significant role in his anti-Mormon activities over the years. But I don't believe this to be the case with such people as the Tanners, or with the vast majority of the other anti-Mormon "ministries" that have dotted the lanscape of the past few decades.


With this kind of evidence, I think it is fair to say that "financial interests" have "played a significant role" in *your* Mopologetic activities.

I'm not going to engage in another long and pointless back-and-forth with Scratch: I just get muddy, and he enjoys it.


You already "muddied" yourself on the MAD thread. Bear in mind that it was an "informant," and not myself, who first noticed your comment. Now many more people will get to observe your hypocrisy, and your lame attempt to backtrack out of it.

But, for the record (there's always a chance that innocent people actually interested in the truth might stop by here), I deny -- and find risible -- the notion that the FARMS Review has "attacked the benign and idealistic faith of Chapel Mormons."


The slamming of the 3 Nephites book; the lambasting of the biography of Mormon. The list goes on and on and on. I have not even touched upon your mockery of other, non-LDS critics.

But I do find Scratch's feigned solicitude for this mythical tribe -- he'll adopt virtually any pose if it facilitates an attack on me and the FARMS Review -- amusing.


"Amusing"? I thought you found it "risible"? Do you take it seriously or not?
Post Reply