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From President Hinckley:

Let us as Latter-day Saints reach out to others not of our faith. Let us never act in a spirit of arrogance or with holier-than-thou attitude. Rather, may we show love and respect and helpfulness toward them. We are greatly misunderstood, and I fear that much of it is of our own making. We can be more tolerant, more neighborly, more friendly, more of an example than we have been in the past. Let us...treat others with friendship, respect, love, and admiration. That will yield a far better result than will an attitude of egotism and arrogance." Discourses, vol 2. 32

I really do try to live this way. I also agree with President Hinckley that much of the antagonism towards the Church is of our own making. I have a history with some of the non-Mormon posters on this board from my time at MADB. A couple of them said it would be fun to spend some time over here.

What a strange experience it has been. I've wondered why there has been so much vitriol aimed at me personally by a few posters, or if they treat all TBM's like that. I have never, EVER- experienced that in a face to face encounter. I wonder if some feel safer posting from behind their safe computer screen. Something about the anonymous nature of the Internet makes a few act like Jacka$$e$. And you can throw Pahoran, Juliann, or any other TBM that deserves it into the pile. I've just never had someone talk back to me with such contempt and condescension. In fact I've rarely seen people treat other people like we do on these boards. Is it that the cowardice that exists in you disappears behind your keyboard? Now, I'm not a tough guy, I'm just real. I'll treat you here exactly how I would to your face. For those that want to get together, PM me and I'll send you my address. I just hope you bring your manners: not that I'm a rough neck, it's just that I can be a little unstable when pushed.

The other option is that you are just an asshole in real life and it carries over.

Big UP!

Lamanite

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

It appears you are leaving. And telling us all we're jerks.

Did I get that right?

harmony wrote:I'm not sure what you're saying here.

It appears you are leaving. And telling us all we're jerks.

Did I get that right?

No...I'm going to stick around. And you're a pussycat, I love you. It's been kinda fun. I'm saying; I can't for the life of me wonder why some people are so mean to other people.

Can't this all be done with some civility. I talk to Scottie every now and then and it's always pleasant. I talk to John W/Runtu quite frequently, always good to chat with John. Talk to Steuss on occasion, good stuff. Talked to Kimberly a couple times, super nice. Even exchanged a few words with the Dr. Shades, he was real nice, except he didn't want my hug. Hell, I've even had exchanges with Cinepro that have been extremely helpful.

So what's the deal? Can't we all just get along? *said in the voice of Reginald Denny*

Big UP!

Lamanite

Lamanite wrote:No...I'm going to stick around. And you're a pussycat, I love you. It's been kinda fun. I'm saying I can't for the life of me wonder why some people are so mean to other people.

Can't this all be done with some civility. I talk to Scottie every now and then and it's always pleasant. I talk to John W/Runtu quite frequently, always good to chat with John. Talk to Steuss on occasion, good stuff. Talked to Kimberly a couple times, super nice. Even exchanged a few words with the Dr. Shades, he was real nice, except he didn't want my hug. Hell, I've even had exchanges with Cinepro that have been extremely helpful.

So what's the deal? Can't we all just get along? *said in the voice of Reginald Denny*

Big UP!

Lamanite

I am glad you're sticking around. You're one of the good ones. I honestly don't know what it is that motivates some people to treat others with such contempt. And you are right that it isn't limited to either side of the Mormon debate. The best we can hope for is for people like you to keep trying to be kind and civil, no matter what anyone else does.

If that doesn't work, I have a few extra Seroquels sitting around.

Runtu wrote:If that doesn't work, I have a few extra Seroquels sitting around.

I just ate a 10mg Zyprexa with a Whiskey chaser. I should be fine when I wake up in 4 days.


Big UP!

Lamanite

Lamanite wrote:No...I'm going to stick around. And you're a pussycat, I love you. It's been kinda fun. I'm saying I can't for the life of me wonder why some people are so mean to other people.

Can't this all be done with some civility. I talk to Scottie every now and then and it's always pleasant. I talk to John W/Runtu quite frequently, always good to chat with John. Talk to Steuss on occasion, good stuff. Talked to Kimberly a couple times, super nice. Even exchanged a few words with the Dr. Shades, he was real nice, except he didn't want my hug. Hell, I've even had exchanges with Cinepro that have been extremely helpful.

So what's the deal? Can't we all just get along? *said in the voice of Reginald Denny*

Big UP!

Lamanite

Well, all any of us can do is model the behavior we'd like to see. (If you think this is bad, you shoulda been here a month ago).

For example, assuming Pres Hinckley's words would hae any influence on more than half of the members of this community would be incorrect; he doesn't matter to some and some actively hate him. To some, he's a red flag. And we are all well aware of the many times our Mormon posters have been rude, unkind, derogatory, mean, and downright unChristlike, and that pointing out this behavior not only doesn't rectify it, it intensifies it.

And then there's the fact that many of us are banned from more LDS boards than you can count. I have personally had my life threatened, my membership repeatedly questioned, and excommunication threatened. All because of things I've said about Joseph.

harmony wrote:For example, assuming Pres Hinckley's words would hae any influence on more than half of the members of this community would be incorrect; he doesn't matter to some and some actively hate him.

You could quote from Jewish, Islamic,Catholic leaders, or even Anthony Lavey; and if they rang true, I'd appreciate it and hopefully allow it to influence my character for the better.

The sheer bias that exist is sad.

Big UP!

Lamanite

PS I do wonder about your faithfulness and dedication to the Church. I "wonder" but I don't know you and I just can't "know" for sure. So if you say your good, then I believe you. It's so easy to be nice and it feels so much better than being an A$$hole!

Lamanite wrote:You could quote from Jewish, Islamic,Catholic leaders, or even Anthony Lavey; and if they rang true, I'd appreciate it and hopefully allow it to influence my character for the better.

There are those here who cannot see any truth in Pres Hinckley. And they very vocally express that.

The sheer bias that exist is sad.

On both sides.

PS I do wonder about your faithfulness and dedication to the Church.

My problem with the church is that I see what it could be, and I am continually disappointed at how short it falls. it was a great idea that has suffered almost from the beginning from the arrogance and greed of the men in charge. I reserve my contempt for only a few: Joseph, Brigham, and Joseph F. Smith. Some I am ambivalent about; some I admire.

I am impatient with almost all of the culture, and disheartened at the Pharisees who see themselves as Saints, from the top of the heirarchy to the bottom of the food chain. I, at least, am well aware of my faults and shortcomings. Changes need to be made in order for the church to be what it should be in the world we live in now. But as long as we have the leadership we presently have, we will continue to be considerably less than we could be. And it breaks my heart.

harmony wrote:My problem with the church is that I see what it could be, and I am continually disappointed at how short it falls. it was a great idea that has suffered almost from the beginning from the arrogance and greed of the men in charge. I reserve my contempt for only a few: Joseph, Brigham, and Joseph F. Smith. Some I am ambivalent about; some I admire.

I am impatient with almost all of the culture, and disheartened at the Pharisees who see themselves as Saints, from the top of the heirarchy to the bottom of the food chain. I, at least, am well aware of my faults and shortcomings. Changes need to be made in order for the church to be what it should be in the world we live in now. But as long as we have the leadership we presently have, we will continue to be considerably less than we could be. And it breaks my heart.

That's as real as it gets. I'm surprised you omitted Joseph Fielding Smith.

I'm so glad you shared. I think we all fall short of the glory of God, speaking of being "less than we could be". It's true that God had a perfect Church until he opened the doors and let all of us in.

I'm curious about what we (I say we because you are a Sister in the Gospel) can do to make changes. And what changes need to be made Culturally, Institutionally, and perhaps doctrinally? Because if we can't effectuate change then we're up a creek. What to do?

Big UP!

Lamanite

Lamanite wrote:I'm curious about what we (I say we because you are a Sister in the Gospel) can do to make changes. And what changes need to be made Culturally, Institutionally, and perhaps doctrinally? Because if we can't effectuate change then we're up a creek. What to do?

Big UP!

Lamanite

Personally, I believe the church will never change because the membership will never request a change. They have absolute trust that the men in charge are called of God AND that God will never let the church fall into apostasy again. A recipe for stagnation.

From outside of Mormonism, critics are seen as anti-Mormons. Anyone who dares challenge the church is seen as attacking it. How can change come with this mindset?

I have seen the most simple and obvious problems with the church denied to the nth degree by apologists. Sometimes I think they are in such a defensive frame of mind that they feel it would somehow weaken their testimony if they conceded any weak point of the church.