A question about Fawn Brodie

[_Dr. Shades]

Dear MormonDiscussions participants:

I have a question about Fawn Brodie, author of No Man Knows My History.

Ms. Brodie was a niece of David O. McKay. She was also excommunicated after her book saw print, meaning (obviously) that she was still LDS while she was writing it.

Therefore, thanks to her family connections, was she ever granted privileged access to the archives or vaults while researching her book? If so, was her access a one-time thing, or did she enjoy it throughout the book's production?

Thanks for any help that anyone can give me.

.

[_GoodK]

Dear MormonDiscussions participants:

I have a question about Fawn Brodie, author of No Man Knows My History.

Ms. Brodie was a niece of David O. McKay. She was also excommunicated after her book saw print, meaning (obviously) that she was still LDS while she was writing it.

Therefore, thanks to her family connections, was she ever granted privileged access to the archives or vaults while researching her book? If so, was her access a one-time thing, or did she enjoy it throughout the book's production?

Thanks for any help that anyone can give me.

.

I remember reading something about her perusing the archives until being found out and denied, but I don't remember where.

This might be of interest: http://www.salamandersociety.com/interviews/fawnbrodie/

[_harmony]

Dear MormonDiscussions participants:

I have a question about Fawn Brodie, author of No Man Knows My History.

Ms. Brodie was a niece of David O. McKay. She was also excommunicated after her book saw print, meaning (obviously) that she was still LDS while she was writing it.

If you read her wikipedia article, it says she snuck in, and when her uncle David found out, he must have reamed her a new one, because she agreed to never do that again.

Fascinating stuff in that article, especially the insight in the footnotes into the family compound living quarters.

Something in the wiki made me wonder if the reason Joseph didn't seem to follow the Book of Mormon much was because he knew it wasn't what he said it was?

[_Lamanite]

Shades,


I know that Fawn basically had Carte Blanche access to the Church archives. I've pieced this together through several biographies. If you would like I will dig up references.

I'll tell you this though, once she published her book, and Church leaders saw how she used her references, the archives were locked down like Fort Knox. Nibley had a hell of a time accessing a journal he donated to the archives just a short time before. It really was ridiculous.

After her book was written, it took a year before she was excommunicated. Her ill feelings toward her uncle were reciprocated. Even after becoming Church President, he still harbored negative feelings towards Fawn, proving even Prophets can be bull headed unforgiving men.

The wonderful part of the story is that he reconciled with her and loved her once again. A close friend described a transformed relationship

She was treated so gracefully be her uncle, who was the President of the Church, David O. McKay, in spite of her excommunication that he felt pretty good about her...Because of David O. McKay's attitude toward her, she continued to have close family relationship with him. Whenever there was a McKay family reunion, she was always there. And she said to me that David O. McKay, every time he saw her until the day he died, put his arm around her and said he loved her. You can't ask for any better blessing than that. Rise of Modern Mormonism, Prince pg 59

I always like it when men develop the type of humility to see where they were wrong. It's heart warming to see familial ties transcend theological differences. David O. McKay was a good man. And although we don't know if he had a part in her excommunication, it is wonderful to see that Fawn, "thought he was quite a remarkable man, from everything that she ever said to me about him..." (ibid pg.59)

The two of them learned to love. And I think it a sweet gesture, that President McKay would put his arms around her and kissed her and hugged her and said, "Fawn, you're on of my favorite nieces". And it says plenty about Fawn that she accepted such doting.

Big UP!

Lamanite


edit to add: Her access to the Church archives was not a result of familial relationships. (what's that word...starts with a "P" that implies favoritism due to family ties, damn brain!)

[_collegeterrace]

edit to add: Her access to the Church archives was not a result of familial relationships. (what's that word...starts with a "P" that implies favoritism due to family ties, damn brain!)

Lamanite dude,

Nepotism is the word that escaped my brain also...Thanks to wiki I retrieved it.

Let me say this to you bro, while you think that LDS Inc has credit for keeping you from the point of the mountian(in Utah), let me say this based on my observations:

No, you are different, just like I was different from my less than desirable familial ties.

LDS Inc has nothing to do with who you are. Your wife and you at your core deserves more credit than does Thommy and his corporate thugs.

Follow your heart and love.

Just my two cents.

Happy newest year to you and yours,

-CT

[_Lamanite]

edit to add: Her access to the Church archives was not a result of familial relationships. (what's that word...starts with a "P" that implies favoritism due to family ties, damn brain!)

Lamanite dude,

Nepotism is the word that escaped my brain also.

Well it didn't start with a "P" but it had a "P" within it. Thanks man, now I can go to sleep.

Look, when I talk to a black guy who is an ignorant son of a bitch, I don't start the conversation out by saying "Look nigger...". I just start by treating him, and his views, with a semblance of respect. And work towards understanding.

I can't discuss my religion with you when you constantly refer to it in a way that has negative connotations.

And often times you throw out comments which aren't meant to instruct or understand, they just seem to be inflammatory.

I'm down for discussion. Just with the understanding that we both have something to learn from each other. And as an extension of that understanding, we use phrases and arguments that are designed to convey idea's in the most polite and dignified manner possible.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_Dr. Shades]

I know that Fawn basically had Carte Blanche access to the Church archives. I've pieced this together through several biographies.

That's interesting, 'cause I looked up the Wikipedia entry that harmony referenced and it seems that her access was cut off at some point.

If you would like I will dig up references.

No need to knock yourself out; but if you can spare the time, I'd love to hear them.

[_Lamanite]

I know that Fawn basically had Carte Blanche access to the Church archives. I've pieced this together through several biographies.

That's interesting, 'cause I looked up the Wikipedia entry that harmony referenced and it seems that her access was cut off at some point.

If you would like I will dig up references.

No need to knock yourself out; but if you can spare the time, I'd love to hear them.

I'll look up refs for you.


You're right about her being cut off. The Church was pissed off. She was cut off after she published the book, but prior to that she could come and go. Basically all scholars got cut off from the archives after she abused the trust proffered her. That's my opinion. Had she been open about the type of book she was writing she would never have been let in. She knew she was a heretic, and she freely admits she's a heretic. I'm pretty sure she never had access to the First Presidency Vault though. She also used a lot of other libraries too, and was not reliant upon SLC for all her information.

As far as the archives are concerned...thank God for Leonard Arrington. Men like Bitton, Davis, Jessee, Ehat, and Bushman kinda helped create the atmosphere of transparency that I believe we have today in regards to Church History and documents. If you haven't read Bitton's memoirs about the time he spent with Arrington while he was Church Historian I would highly suggest taking the time. Ten Years in Camelot

Now the archives are pretty open. Elder Jensen and Brother Turley, Elsplin et al. have really helped with that a lot.

It was either that or fall behind the curve with the advent of the Internet and the massive quantities of information available to anyone and everyone. But, I don't think that is the only reason for the shift. The Church is less vulnerable today than it was in the early 1900's; so I think it can be a little more open now.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_aussieguy55]

There was a program on PBS about her book on Jefferson and the issue of Sally Hemmings, his slave.

[_rcrocket]

Fawn Brodie was not denied access to Church archives. In her interview, as part of the Cal State Fullerton oral history program, she said "It is not quite true to say the manuscript sources were denied to me."

She says that she first negotiated, and successfully so, unfettered access to church archives. But, she decided not to use it. "I wrote to [Pres. McKay] saying I would not ask for any more material and I never went back to the church library. So, technically, I was given access, but I didn't use it." Indeed, when she lists her key library resources, she does not mention the church archives.

She explained that she didn't want to use church archives because of "an extremely difficult family situation," but I kinda wonder what she thought the publication of her book would do to her family.

Sort of a strange thing for a biographer to do, ignore the most crucial repository of documents on the studied subject.

I'm curious, as to those who have commented above, whether each of you actually possess the book. It is a remarkable literary watershed on the life of the Prophet, but few Mormons -- active or tepid believers -- actually have ever read it, much less possessed it.