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And it's Thursday morning and you're in council with the First Presidency and the Twelve. Your goal is to not leave the room until the Missionary discussions are revamped.

The framework is to have 10 discussions without which the investigator cannot be baptized.

Of what do those 10 discussions consist.


Big UP!


Lamanite

P.S. An offline conversation with Kimberly Ann inspired this thread. So if you don't take it seriously for me, perhaps you'll do it for her.




a

If I were President Monson, I would try to compile some kind of list of items that cause members to lose their testimony.

I would start with the more faith promoting lessings, as they are currently doing. Somewhere along lesson 7, I would teach these troublesome issues and the apologetic responses to them. If it is truly the spirit that converts, then there should be no problem in discussing polygamy/polyandry and the ways in which Joseph Smith coerced women to marry him, Book of Abraham, translating the Book of Mormon from a stone in the hat, Joseph Smith early treasure seeking, the Kirtland bank, etc. The spirit will testify truthfulness regardless of these things that apparently don't matter to your salvation.

I guess I would ask what the goal of missionary work is? Strictly to get converts, or to share the truth about your religion. As of right now, I'd say it is the former. If President Monson had any integrity about his religion, he would change the focus to sharing the truth... painful as the truth may be.

Lamanite wrote:And it's Thursday morning and you're in council with the First Presidency and the Twelve. Your goal is to not leave the room until the Missionary discussions are revamped.

The framework is to have 10 discussions without which the investigator cannot be baptized.

Of what do those 10 discussions consist.


Big UP!


Lamanite

P.S. An offline conversation with Kimberly Ann inspired this thread. So if you don't take it seriously for me, perhaps you'll do it for her.




a

I hope they are staying in a Marriott with room service and a lot of beds because I can't see that meeting ending in a very short amount of time.

Scottie wrote:If I were President Monson, I would try to compile some kind of list of items that cause members to lose their testimony.

I would start with the more faith promoting lessings, as they are currently doing. Somewhere along lesson 7, I would teach these troublesome issues and the apologetic responses to them. If it is truly the spirit that converts, then there should be no problem in discussing polygamy/polyandry and the ways in which Joseph Smith coerced women to marry him, Book of Abraham, translating the Book of Mormon from a stone in the hat, Joseph Smith early treasure seeking, the Kirtland bank, etc. The spirit will testify truthfulness regardless of these things that apparently don't matter to your salvation.

I guess I would ask what the goal of missionary work is? Strictly to get converts, or to share the truth about your religion. As of right now, I'd say it is the former. If President Monson had any integrity about his religion, he would change the focus to sharing the truth... painful as the truth may be.

A lot of members would say the thornier issues have been dealt with and there is no reason to discuss them, or rehash them. What's the argument for that.

Big UP!

Lamanite


PS If you're curious follow the MAD thread as well.

Lamanite wrote:A lot of members would say the thornier issues have been dealt with and there is no reason to discuss them, or rehash them. What's the argument for that.

If they have been dealt with, then why are so many members leaving because of them? Have you read the exit stories? Many, MANY members are leaving because of the shady history. Why, here alone I can think of 10 exmo's who were once stalwart, full testimony bearing members of the church until they found out the thornier issues. How can you say they have been dealt with?

It is one of my pet peeves when apologists say that all the problematic issues have been "answered". They have most assuredly NOT been answered. They have simply been addressed. And, in my opionion, most often not very well. Addressed and answered are not the same thing.

I'll check out the MAD thread.

Edited to add: What MAD thread? You mean the one I started?
Edited again: Found it.

Scottie wrote:...
I guess I would ask what the goal of missionary work is? Strictly to get converts, or to share the truth about your religion. As of right now, I'd say it is the former. If President Monson had any integrity about his religion, he would change the focus to sharing the truth... painful as the truth may be.

Agree.

My stepson, (38) who was baptized and taught as Reformed then became atheist (=apatheist) when he was 18, last year baptized to Roman Catholic.
The lessons went on one hour twice a week for a year.
With vacations it means about more than 80 hours. And it covered problematic issues, as he told me.

Compare the "missionary work" !

I'd abandon the discussions altogether and use the lessons out of Gospel Principles. I would also wait until a potential investigator finished those lessons which would also therefore entail a wait of about a year of Church going, tithe paying, etc. before baptism.

I pity Thommy.

He is in a bad spot.

Not only is the weight of LDS INC on his shoulders, keeping all of the due paying members happy, but he also has the entire economy of Utah resting upon LDS Inc.

The tiny and fragile economy of Utah would implode if LDS Inc failed.

Does Thommy want to go down in the history books as the man who told the truth AND destroyed the economy of the state of Utah?

Probably not. He has no choice but to continue the facade.

No format of the missionary discussions nor presentation of LDS theology will make the great information whore(internet) go away.

The best growth for LDS Inc has always been within the wombs of the female members.

I would have the first seven lessons focus on the teachings of Jesus Christ, since the "milk" is really the most important anyway. The final three would be focused on Mormon peculiarities. I would steer clear of past speculative pronouncements and ideas. Let the past bury the past.

Lamanite wrote:

Scottie wrote:If I were President Monson, I would try to compile some kind of list of items that cause members to lose their testimony.

I would start with the more faith promoting lessings, as they are currently doing. Somewhere along lesson 7, I would teach these troublesome issues and the apologetic responses to them. If it is truly the spirit that converts, then there should be no problem in discussing polygamy/polyandry and the ways in which Joseph Smith coerced women to marry him, Book of Abraham, translating the Book of Mormon from a stone in the hat, Joseph Smith early treasure seeking, the Kirtland bank, etc. The spirit will testify truthfulness regardless of these things that apparently don't matter to your salvation.

I guess I would ask what the goal of missionary work is? Strictly to get converts, or to share the truth about your religion. As of right now, I'd say it is the former. If President Monson had any integrity about his religion, he would change the focus to sharing the truth... painful as the truth may be.

A lot of members would say the thornier issues have been dealt with and there is no reason to discuss them, or rehash them. What's the argument for that.

Big UP!

Lamanite


PS If you're curious follow the MAD thread as well.

This is a very strange argument in my mind. In every other discipline, issues are considered dealt with and retired. Issues that were "thorny" and have been dealt with are usually required reading in introduction to intermediate courses.

I think most Mormons find themselves at a huge disadvantage when wishing to engage the world, especially critics about their religion because they are so naïve of their own history--especially doctrinal history.