DiscussMormonism.com

Bruce Longo was 'The Holy Ghost come to earth to gain a body' per his statement to my buddy here. Per some of his followers he was Jesus. Either way he had some nutcase followers who had been very strong LDS members. Gil Hibben was a knifemaker, aikido and karate teacher and Tabernacle choir singer, going to and from Manti, Utah to SLC to sing.
Sterling Peacock was a Karate Studio owner in Provo.
Others were similar and almost all were returned missionaries of the LDS Church.
Bruce had them running scams and lying to everyone they knew to get cash so he and his family of wife and 6-8 kids could live the high life at a Salt Lake Hotel. He was free with $100 bills for payment of nearly everything.

Then it all came apart. He committed suicide in a VW on Parleys summit by breathing in exhaust gasses that came in from a hose from exhaust to the inside. The wife then threw her kids off the balcony of a high room at the hotel and she jumped also. One kid lived, still believes her dad is Jesus and all will be well.

Gil Hibben is out of prison and a 'Kentucky Colonel' making knives in Kentucky. Sterling Peacock is now "Matthew David", living in Spokane, Washington and teaching karate, MMA fighting and believing he is the heir apparent to Longo's 'authority'.

What is it about 'true believers' that makes them so easy to seduce into stupidity like this?

Emotions overriding logic.

What I don't understand is how everyone in the world believes THEY are different. That somehow THEIR spiritual promptings are unique and everyone else is wrong.

I mean, if nearly everyone on the planet has a propensity to strongly believe in a religion, then wouldn't it make sense that this is a human trait and you are just as fallible to this as anyone else?

Scottie wrote:Emotions overriding logic.

What I don't understand is how everyone in the world believes THEY are different. That somehow THEIR spiritual promptings are unique and everyone else is wrong.

I mean, if nearly everyone on the planet has a propensity to strongly believe in a religion, then wouldn't it make sense that this is a human trait and you are just as fallible to this as anyone else?

That's not unreasonable, but I think it's a little hasty to say that all these feelings have to be the same, as well. Chucking your kids out the window of a hotel is not really comparable to saying you have a testimony the church is true. I think there's more psychosis than just strong emotions motivating those actions. As far as the kids go, that's all they know. I don't think they've been given enough of a fair shake with reality to really accuse them of just being too believing. Trying to lump it all together I think is going outside the lines to try to pigeonhole "faith."

maklelan wrote:That's not unreasonable, but I think it's a little hasty to say that all these feelings have to be the same, as well. Chucking your kids out the window of a hotel is not really comparable to saying you have a testimony the church is true. I think there's more psychosis than just strong emotions motivating those actions. As far as the kids go, that's all they know. I don't think they've been given enough of a fair shake with reality to really accuse them of just being too believing. Trying to lump it all together I think is going outside the lines to try to pigeonhole "faith."

Is it?

LDS all admire Jacob and his willingness to sacrifice his son. LDS admire Nephi for obeying God and decapitating a helpless man. It is fortunate that the LDS had reletively peaceful prophets and went down the path of a benign religion. I cringe at what the strict adherants would do if they got a prophet who preached bloodshed!

There are those who will kill and die for their faith all over the world. This story is a bit more shocking, but at it's core, it's really not much different than some other religions.

Of course, this being said, I believe that most people are sensible enough to say no if a "prophet" told them God commanded them to throw their kids off a balcony. I believe everyone has their breaking point where they will consider a prophetic command insane.

Scottie wrote:LDS all admire Jacob and his willingness to sacrifice his son.

Abraham. And that was an entirely different culture that actually had a history of that kind of sacrifice. God used the opportunity to teach Abraham that he abhorred human sacrifice. There's a difference between a ritual like that and just winging kids out the window. Also, ask all those Latter-day Saints if they believe the gospel actually leaves room for that ever happening again.

Scottie wrote:LDS admire Nephi for obeying God and decapitating a helpless man.

A man who was trying to kill him and burglarize his home. Killing him like that was perfectly within his legal right. Again, that was a different culture with different ethical frameworks.

Scottie wrote:It is fortunate that the LDS had reletively peaceful prophets and went down the path of a benign religion. I cringe at what the strict adherants would do if they got a prophet who preached bloodshed!

I think Mountain Meadows is a good example of what that kind of attitude will foster. The situations aren't really comparable, though, since they lived in a perpetually hostile environment and believed they were in imminent danger.

Scottie wrote:There are those who will kill and die for their faith all over the world. This story is a bit more shocking, but at it's core, it's really not much different than some other religions.

It's a lot different. The contexts in which the events took place show a far more aberrant mindset. You can't compare kids who spend their entire lives being indoctrinated to believe killing infidels along with themselves is what God wants for them to American Christian adults making claims like these and throwing their children out the window when their house of cards came down. That's not a logical extension of their worldview, but in radical Islam it absolutely is.

Scottie wrote:Of course, this being said, I believe that most people are sensible enough to say no if a "prophet" told them God commanded them to throw their kids off a balcony. I believe everyone has their breaking point where they will consider a prophetic command insane.

But this woman had no such command, as far as we know. She just flipped out. I think that's indicative of psychotic behavior more than a perverted set of divine command ethics.

maklelan wrote:Abraham.

Not sure where I got Jacob...thanks for the correction.

And that was an entirely different culture that actually had a history of that kind of sacrifice. God used the opportunity to teach Abraham that he abhorred human sacrifice. There's a difference between a ritual like that and just winging kids out the window. Also, ask all those Latter-day Saints if they believe the gospel actually leaves room for that ever happening again.

That's a good point. One of the few LDS doctrines is that Christ was the last human sacrifice.

A man who was trying to kill him and burglarize his home. Killing him like that was perfectly within his legal right. Again, that was a different culture with different ethical frameworks.

Umm... I think it was the other way around. Nephi was trying to burglarize Laban. And, apparently trying to kill him... only Nephi succeeded.

But this woman had no such command, as far as we know. She just flipped out. I think that's indicative of psychotic behavior more than a perverted set of divine command ethics.

I agree. It looks much more indicitive of a psychotic episode than religious fanaticism.

Scottie wrote:Umm... I think it was the other way around. Nephi was trying to burglarize Laban. And, apparently trying to kill him... only Nephi succeeded.

Laman originally asked for the plates. Laban said he was a robber and tried to kill him. Then they all went and gathered their possessions and offered them to Laban in exchange for the plates. Laban tried to kill them again and stole their possessions. After twice trying to kill Nephi or his family, and after stealing their property, he was killed by Nephi. Nephi was perfectly justified.

Scottie wrote:I agree. It looks much more indicitive of a psychotic episode than religious fanaticism.

Agreed.

maklelan wrote:Laman originally asked for the plates. Laban said he was a robber and tried to kill him. Then they all went and gathered their possessions and offered them to Laban in exchange for the plates. Laban tried to kill them again and stole their possessions. After twice trying to kill Nephi or his family, and after stealing their property, he was killed by Nephi. Nephi was perfectly justified.

No, he wasn't.

Nephi could have just as easily left Laban tied rather than kill him and still accomplish his task.

Sure, what Laban did was wrong, and I guess your God is a vengeful god, so it does make sense that he would command Nephi to kill him. I, myself, would like to think that a forgiving god would hold himself to a higher standard.

squawkeye wrote:One kid lived, still believes her dad is Jesus and all will be well.

I thought the surviving daughter suffered severe brain damage as a result of being thrown off the roof? Such a very, very sad story.

MAK:

Nephi was perfectly justified.

Let me guess?
FARMS did a piece justifying the murder??
LOL! Gotta love it!