DiscussMormonism.com

Okay, I confess I posted several times on RFM recently, yesterday actually. I was sort of curious to have some conversation with SL Cabbie, since we are in the same profession. Cabbie and I probably disagree on a lot, but we have this in common.

Anyway, while I was on RFM, for the first time in six and a half years, I noticed the title of a post there: "I'm drinking my first coffee tonight." Good God. You'd think this person was confessing to adultery or something. But in Mormonism, that's how innocently drinking a cup of coffee can seem - like a major crime!

Form one source:

The Word of Wisdom and Worthiness

A key element in the Mormon works-system of salvation is
the Word of Wisdom, revered as “the Lord’s law of health.” This
revelation has come to be interpreted as a command to abstain
from drinking coffee and liquor, and partaking of tobacco.

Obeying the Word of Wisdom is considered one of the
fundamental requirements of being worthy. Spencer W. Kimball
said: “For observing the Word of Wisdom the reward is life, not
only prolonged mortal life but life eternal.”

According to Doctrines of Salvation, “If you drink coffee or tea, or take tobacco, you are letting a cup of tea or a little tobacco stand in the road and bar you from the celestial kingdom of God, where
you might otherwise have received a fullness of glory. . . . God is
not going to save every man and woman in the celestial
kingdom.”

Obviously, the penalty for not heeding the Word of
Wisdom is severe

We all know this, don't we, Mormons and ex-Mormons. In his book Faith Precedes The Miracle, President Kimball told the story of a member drinking coffee as "having sold her soul to the devil". I no longer own this piece of trash, but maybe some of our Mormon scholars here can look it up.

No wonder this poster on RFM felt this way. My heart sunk. Why should any human being feel so sinful and evil for merely wanting to taste their first cup of coffee?

Now I admit I haven't been the most tolerant person to post on RFM, but I guess you could say I've had some "realisations" over the last seven years. I was not BIC, I was a convert, and I should not have judged these people by my experiences.

I really have no other description for this other than "Pharisaic". So much unnecessary guilt, for such a small thing. The malaise runs deeper than I thought.

Does anyone here seriously believe that a cup of coffee will bar them from the presence of God forever?

Defenders?
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Ironically, I'm sipping on coffee right now as I just opened this thread.

Yes. by the way. In Mormonism, drinking coffee will keep you out of Heaven. Word of Wisdom, baby. Temple recommend. Unworthy. Broken convenants. Weeeeeiiiiiiirrrrrrrd.

Funny stuff, Ray. Serious sin, huh?

Back in my university days, I decided to take a course with Professor McMurrin. It became a big stink with my father. He told me he wouldn't pay for that class, if I decided to take it. I said ok. Then, he backed down and paid for it anyway. (I imagine he regrets doing that, now).

He must have told my grandparents. They came down off the hill to visit and explain to me just how dangerous Professor McMurrin could be. You see, they lived right next to him for years and my grandmother was a visiting teacher for some of that time to his wife. Her major warning to me was this: "I visited their home in the past and saw a coffee maker on their counter in the kitchen. They don't keep the commandments. You could lose your testimony if you listen to him too much." (Not a word for word quote, but you get the jist.)

Wow, of all she could have been concerned about, that was her first reaction, to tell me about their coffee maker in the kitchen.

I canceled the class and stayed away after that. Scary stuff, indeed!

Gramps

You could lose your testimony if you listen to him too much."

You just remined me of a conversation I had with my mother when i was about ten.. I came home from school to find my Mother crying. I asked her why and she said she had just gotten off the phone with her brother Carl. Seems my uncle Carl (a school teacher) was going back to school and get his Masters and that - according to my ever faithful mother "too much education could ruin his testamony."

It did not, but left a wonderful impression of education vs church in my mind.

TAK wrote:Gramps

You could lose your testimony if you listen to him too much."

You just remined me of a conversation I had with my mother when i was about ten.. I came home from school to find my Mother crying. I asked her why and she said she had just gotten off the phone with her brother Carl. Seems my uncle Carl (a school teacher) was going back to school and get his Masters and that - according to my ever faithful mother "too much education could ruin his testamony."

It did not, but left a wonderful impression of education vs church in my mind.

Thanks for that, TAK.

Education can be a frightening thing. For my mother and father, it wasn't just too much education, but too much education in the wrong areas. Business, law, medicine, accounting: these were ok. (I come from a line of bankers and lawyers.)

But, philosophy and all that might entail? No chance.

Funny, I think back on it and sometimes wonder if my Shakespeare professor and what we learned through his teaching wasn't more dangerous than anything Professor McMurrin ever threw at me.

Now, to get everything back on topic .... I think I am going to put together one of my hand-rolled cigarettes and smoke it while I drink this really nice cup of coffee, and then head out into the blizzard. Peace.

gramps wrote:
Thanks for that, TAK.

Education can be a frightening thing. For my mother and father, it wasn't just too much education, but too much education in the wrong areas. Business, law, medicine, accounting: these were ok. (I come from a line of bankers and lawyers.)

But, philosophy and all that might entail? No chance.

Funny, I think back on it and sometimes wonder if my Shakespeare professor and what we learned through his teaching wasn't more dangerous than anything Professor McMurrin ever threw at me.

Now, to get everything back on topic .... I think I am going to put together one of my hand-rolled cigarettes and smoke it while I drink this really nice cup of coffee, and then head out into the blizzard. Peace.

Happy New Year Gramps!

TAK wrote:...
"too much education could ruin his testamony."

It did not, but left a wonderful impression of education vs church in my mind.

Having read and listen many times the mantra "the glory of god is intelligence" this is one of the most weird thing concerning the church.

ludwigm wrote:

TAK wrote:...
"too much education could ruin his testamony."

It did not, but left a wonderful impression of education vs church in my mind.

Having read and listen many times the mantra "the glory of god is intelligence" this is one of the most weird thing concerning the church.

Ah, yes, Ludwig, but you must always keep in mind and heart: Knowledge is not intelligence, or wisdom, for that matter.

Ray

It certainly is an absurdity that over emphasis in the WoW has created. It is even more amazing when one understands that 19th century Mormons drank coffee, tea, some drank liquor, chewed etc. The WOW was never meant by Joseph Smith to be such a club that it is today.

It is kinda strange, I know that a few months ago I was drinking coffee because I was falling asleep in class and it actually made me feel a bit bad, like I was doing something wrong. I don't really know why as I generally try not to let people control me.