Page 1 of 2

An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:28 am
by _harmony
In looking for a book Lamanite recommended, I found this blog (which has a post by our very own Plate).

Link: http://johnwmorehead.blogspot.com/2008/ ... ehive.html

Quotes and my comments:

When questioned about what he'd like to see inside a Mormon Studies field of academics, Mauss answered:

1) Where does the anti-Mormon animus come from? Sociologists Bromley, Richardson, Robbins, Anthony, Barker, and others, have all (in various ways) raised some interesting questions about whose interests are actually being served by the thriving “anti-cult” movement in the world (usually including an anti-Mormon component, so derivatively the same question is applicable to the anti-Mormon movement specifically). Ex-Mormons seem to play a prominent part in the latter movement, even launching entire new careers. I know of no counterpart phenomenon of the opposite kind (i.e. ex-Evangelicals – or ex-anything else –) who become Mormons and then devote themselves to fighting against their former co-religionists.


So: 1) anti-Mormons are part of a larger anti-cult movement, and 2) the anti-Mormon part seems to be fueled in large part by ex-Mormons.

He's entirely right about that last sentence.

2) From the viewpoint of the “religious economy” model recently popularized by Stark et al. (and by Laurence Moore among historians), might we understand the strains between Mormons and Evangelicals in part as a natural result of competing for “customers” in the same market niche? The moderately educated, upwardly mobile segment of American society seems to be the main stratum from which both Mormons and Evangelicals are drawing their converts. Ultimately, how much of the tension between Mormons and Evangelicals is theological and how much is sociological?


So much for idea that the church targets converts from people with money or, conversely, the poor. On the contrary, it targets the middle class.

3) What is the impact on the Mormon leadership and grassroots of the unwillingness to accept Mormons as Christians – an issue very much highlighted for Mormons by the Romney campaign? Is the tension over this issue likely to accelerate Mormon assimilation into the American mainstream, or have the opposite effect – i. e. encourage a new retrenchment and “circling of the wagons”? Will the effect be different among U. S. Mormons than among Mormons elsewhere (who are now the majority of the world’s Mormons)?


This I found highly interesting. I think what we're seeing currently is a retrenchment, and a deep one at that.

Further:

Of course, the major symptoms of assimilation were the abandonment of polygamy, theocracy, collectivist economic experiments, the adoption of American 2-party politics, and the embrace of American patriotism. Theologically, during the first half of the 20th century, LDS leaders such as Talmage, Widtsoe, and Roberts undertook to codify and “Christianize” LDS theology, and to emphasize use of the King James Bible over the use of the Book of Mormon.


So all those revelations were... kicked to the curb? We should be so lucky.... (my comments in italics within the quote)

Then, after midcentury, symptoms of retrenchment were a new emphasis upon use of the Book of Mormon {Pres Benson's charge that the church was under condemnation because of the lack of emphasis on the Book of Mormon, in the early 80's}; a renewed focus on the president of the church as a prophet (with additions to the D & C for the first time in the century, recurrent slogans about following the prophet and obedience) {again, Pres Benson}; the centralization and standardization of the church program and administration known as “correlation;” {Pres Hinckley?} great expansion in such “peculiar” Mormon programs as genealogy, temple-building, missionary work, and religious education (seminary and institute programs) {Pres Hinckley's push} – all of which had languished for decades; and finally a renewal and redefinition of the LDS theology of the family, with a conservative definition of women’s roles {the subjucation of women outlined in the POTF} and an ongoing program to bolster the nuclear family institution as a bulwark against the creeping vices of sexual indulgence, substance use or abuse, and many other social ills afflicting American society since the 1960s.


Addressing Mormon culture:

For Mormons, living in a certain way is more important than believing in a certain way.


Truer words were never spoken. Amen and amen!

Ideally, people will learn both correct belief and correct behavior from membership in the LDS community, but it is the behavioral boundaries that really define the Mormon identity.


So... someone please tell me that I'm wrong when I say Mormon culture defines the church, not Mormon doctrine.

blip


blip


blip

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:06 am
by _hobart
When addressing things like "anti-Mormonism," we'd first have to define what exactly that entails. Often the "anti-" label is affixed to things that people just don't like. This I think is where the "persecution complex" comes in (someone tell me if there's a more-sociological term for it). When a group that has often felt antagonism towards it will often be ultra-sensitive to criticism and even indifferent observations (like the Mormons--and I've seen this with homosexuals too: which makes Prop 8 fiasco a childish "bigot" name-calling fest).

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:11 am
by _Lamanite
Harmony,


Mauss is one of my favorite Mormon scholars. In regards to entrenchment:

"...the unpopular Mormon movement, having failed in a desperate nineteenth-century struggle for religious and political autonomy, finally achieved success and respectability in North America by abandoning its most offensive practices and deliberately pursuing a policy of assimilation with the surrounding American culture...In many ways the past few decades [circa 1970-early 1990] have witnessed an increasing reaction of the Mormons against their own successful assimilation, as though trying o recover some of the cultural tension and special identity associated with their earlier "sect-like" history. It is this retrenchment mode among Mormons of more recent decades... " that is the focus of the book. (The Angel and the Beehive, preface)



I'm developing a post for my blog on this concept. Tell me why you think "we're seeing currently is a retrenchment"


Big UP!

Lamanite

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:14 am
by _harmony
hobart wrote:When addressing things like "anti-Mormonism," we'd first have to define what exactly that entails. Often the "anti-" label is affixed to things that people just don't like. This I think is where the "persecution complex" comes in (someone tell me if there's a more-sociological term for it). When a group that has often felt antagonism towards it will often be ultra-sensitive to criticism and even indifferent observations (like the Mormons--and I've seen this with homosexuals too: which makes Prop 8 fiasco a childish "bigot" name-calling fest).


The assimilation process he talks about is how the group leaders try to counter this kind of hypersensitivity to criticism. The retrenchment we're seeing now (after the slight assimiliation swing of the pendlelum during Pres Hinckley's presidency) I think is a hypersensitive reaction on the part of our leaders to the criticisms leveled during Romney's aborted run and now the fallout from the Prop 8 debacle.

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:14 am
by _harmony
Lamanite wrote:Harmony,


Mauss is one of my favorite Mormon scholars. In regards to entrenchment:


He was one of my favorite professors during my undergrad.

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:19 am
by _harmony
Lamanite wrote:I'm developing a post for my blog on this concept. Tell me why you think "we're seeing currently is a retrenchment"


Big UP!

Lamanite


The whole Prop 8 thing I think was, in part, a reaction to the rest of the country's rejection of Romney. And then the reaction by the church to the situation that occurred after the passage of Prop 8 is a further prime example (the press releases and subsequent comments weren't exactly the milk of human kindness).

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:21 am
by _Lamanite
harmony wrote:
Lamanite wrote:Harmony,


Mauss is one of my favorite Mormon scholars. In regards to entrenchment:


He was one of my favorite professors during my undergrad.



Just looking at your response to hobart...you're asserting that prop 8 is an example of retrenchment? I could probably argue against that simply by using the Proclamation on the family, but I won't because I'm more interested if you think that the current First Presidency and the Twelve with Packer as President have more retrenchment ideas or programs or policies in mind?

Is this going to continue, in your opinion? And why is that bad?

Big UP!

Lamanite

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:39 am
by _LifeOnaPlate
Doesn't look like I added much substance to that thread. And I killed it. :[

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:43 am
by _Lamanite
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Doesn't look like I added much substance to that thread. And I killed it. :[


Apparently Daniel you need to finish reading Kuhn first before you can participate in any other threads!!!


:lol:


Shalom Rabbi Shlomo


Lamanite

Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:23 am
by _harmony
Lamanite wrote:Just looking at your response to hobart...you're asserting that prop 8 is an example of retrenchment? I could probably argue against that simply by using the Proclamation on the family, but I won't because I'm more interested if you think that the current First Presidency and the Twelve with Packer as President have more retrenchment ideas or programs or policies in mind?

Is this going to continue, in your opinion? And why is that bad?

Big UP!

Lamanite


I think the POTF is an example of retrenchment, itself. And yes, I think we'll continue to see more and more fundamentalist ideas coming now that BKP has more power. I didn't say that was "bad"; I didn't put a value statement on it. I don't think it's necessarily the healthiest path to go down, though, for the members. And as far as Prop 8 is concerned, I think it was an opportunity to deliver a resounding slap to the rest of the country, who had just rejected the Mormon answer to George Bush.